All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
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01-03-2013, 05:08 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
(01-03-2013 05:01 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Is his IP in the same block as Ego's? Might be a relative... Or Ego on a relative's computer. I Doubt it though, he hasn't tried to promote his brand of religion yet... Worth checking though.
Trying to link me to Ego is just another ad homenin attack.
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01-03-2013, 05:09 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
(01-03-2013 04:59 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-03-2013 04:49 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nope. The argument here is that ONLY prayer done during "studies" could or would be subject to *Hey Hey I'm OK*'s reasoning. In fact, many of them were retrospective, so the decision to use the prayer for a study in many cases was not done until after the case was discharged, and it was double blinded, AND if HHIOK is going to argue "well the gods are onmiscient, so she knew", then it refutes free will. So pays yer money, and makes your choice.

BTW HHIOK, you do know the plural form of "atheist" is "athesists" ? Right ? You do know that prayer in one study was PROVEN to have a detrimental affect, right ? So is yer god even more of a jerk, and purposely makes people worse because the good beliebers pray to her ? You are full of self-delusional crap. I KNOW you are related to Egsy, our Chief Troll Emeritus. Did he send you ?

I don't know anyone on this forum...past or current members. You are treating your suspicions as fact. This is a serious thinking error.

I agree that free will conflicts with omnipotence and omniscience but I fail to see how that is true in this case. The fact that God knows a person's "prayer" is going to end up being an element in a scientific study in no way restricts that persons ability to "pray".

I forgive you for claiming I am full of self-delusional crap.

Please don't forgive me. Hold it against me, always. Please. Tongue
The question is not about "ability to pray", but ACCORDING TO YOUR, I REPEAT YOUR REASONING, the gods would know, and not answer because they knew. The point went over your deluded head. Please hold that one against me too.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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01-03-2013, 05:11 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
(01-03-2013 05:08 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-03-2013 05:01 AM)Phaedrus Wrote:  Is his IP in the same block as Ego's? Might be a relative... Or Ego on a relative's computer. I Doubt it though, he hasn't tried to promote his brand of religion yet... Worth checking though.
Trying to link me to Ego is just another ad homenin attack.

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E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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01-03-2013, 05:11 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
I'm joking about Egsy. These people are all the same. "Oh...please save my poor soul. I've been waiting for 20 years for my savior". This one thinks he knows more than med researchers, and Dawkins. This one needs meds. Seriously.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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01-03-2013, 05:16 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
(01-03-2013 05:01 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Now then, which method of communication would work best in trying to communicate with me ?
1. Sending me a message via this forum
2. Tapping on two rocks in morse code outside in the woods.

You get to decide that. You can ignore messages via this forum if you want. You can ignore the sounds of two rocks being tapped in the woods if you want. Or suppose you don't want to be a lab rat....well then you can ignore all of the researchers attempts to communicate with you. You see trying to determine what is the best method to communicate with you is a task that requires your cooperation. Unless we secure your cooperation either thru your own volition or by decieving you our study will be worthless.
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01-03-2013, 05:29 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
(01-03-2013 03:26 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I often hear atheist claim that scientific studies of prayer show that it doesn't work. I cringe that people actually put faith in studies which are obviously fatally flawed. How do you test God? How do you control that variable?

Suppose I am a researcher looking for evidence for the "power of prayer". I ask my participants to pray for a certain group of heart patients. Does God actually consider those prayers to be prayers or merely elements in a "scientific" study? Maybe God has decided he will not be tested and ignores those prayers or maybe he decides to apply the "graces" from those "prayers" to people not under the scrutiny of the researcher.

There is a reason researchers will often keep the true purpose of a study away from the test subjects....they don't want the study to influence the actions of thier subjects. With God that is impossible to do. A researcher studying the power of prayer has to hope that his subject, God, will cooperate in the study...he can't trick God into cooperating.

Scientific studies of prayer are bad science.


So you are saying that God puts a higher value on remaining hidden than on answering prayer?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-03-2013, 05:31 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
(01-03-2013 05:11 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I'm joking about Egsy. These people are all the same. "Oh...please save my poor soul. I've been waiting for 20 years for my savior". This one thinks he knows more than med researchers, and Dawkins. This one needs meds. Seriously.
I'm sure Dawkins know more than me about evolution. That doesn't mean I can't call him out when I think he is making an error. Why is he such a super hero to you?
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01-03-2013, 05:36 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
(01-03-2013 05:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-03-2013 03:26 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I often hear atheist claim that scientific studies of prayer show that it doesn't work. I cringe that people actually put faith in studies which are obviously fatally flawed. How do you test God? How do you control that variable?

Suppose I am a researcher looking for evidence for the "power of prayer". I ask my participants to pray for a certain group of heart patients. Does God actually consider those prayers to be prayers or merely elements in a "scientific" study? Maybe God has decided he will not be tested and ignores those prayers or maybe he decides to apply the "graces" from those "prayers" to people not under the scrutiny of the researcher.

There is a reason researchers will often keep the true purpose of a study away from the test subjects....they don't want the study to influence the actions of thier subjects. With God that is impossible to do. A researcher studying the power of prayer has to hope that his subject, God, will cooperate in the study...he can't trick God into cooperating.

Scientific studies of prayer are bad science.


So you are saying that God puts a higher value on remaining hidden than on answering prayer?
Thats a possibility. In genesis God condemned all of humanity for the sin of Adam and Eve. So if we assume prayer studies are taking about the Christian God, it isn't far fetched to assume that the Christain God would refrain from answering a devoutful prayer simply because it was also an element of a scientific study. The Christian God seems to have no qualms about some people suffering because of the actions of others.
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01-03-2013, 05:44 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
(01-03-2013 05:31 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(01-03-2013 05:11 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I'm joking about Egsy. These people are all the same. "Oh...please save my poor soul. I've been waiting for 20 years for my savior". This one thinks he knows more than med researchers, and Dawkins. This one needs meds. Seriously.
I'm sure Dawkins know more than me about evolution. That doesn't mean I can't call him out when I think he is making an error. Why is he such a super hero to you?

He isn't. In fact he's done a lot of dumb things, and needs help in a few areas, where he could a lot better. That doen't make him wrong in the area you said he was, which is simply not true. Why do you project your crap so much, instead of asking or investigatin ? Oh that's right. Jebus tells you things.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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01-03-2013, 05:52 AM
RE: All scientific studies regarding prayer are fatally flawed
My last attempt.

If you believe god knows everything, then I'm telling you that "prayer" (ie telling him something he already knows) doesn't change anything.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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