Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
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31-10-2015, 07:44 PM
Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
Mark Fulton Wrote:Paul claimed:
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Gal. 2;16, KJV) and
Mark Fulton Wrote:“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Gal. 3:13, KJV) and
Mark Fulton Wrote:“Before faith came, we were allowed no freedom by the Law; we were being looked after till faith was revealed. The law was to be our guardian until the Christ came and we could be justified by faith. Now that that time has come we are no longer under that guardian, and you are, all of you, sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. All baptized in Christ, you have all clothed yourself in Christ, and there are no more distinctions between Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female, but all of you are one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:23–28, NJB.)
Mark Fulton Wrote:Jews didn’t buy this. They wouldn’t be Jewish if they did. They believed - and still do - that the way to find favor with God was to obey “the Law” - that is, the Torah, as allegedly taught by Moses.

Question: are you saying that Paul was teaching that to obey God's laws was not important any more? Because if this is what you are saying I want to know where you got this idea from?


Mark Fulton Wrote:There’s no mention in their scriptures about an end to the covenant God made with their ancestors on Mount Sinai.

So what if there is no mention in their Scriptures? By the way why did Jews stone to death almost all their ancient prophets while those prophets lived and walked on earth? But later they accepted them? Because Jews and the rest of tribes were saying to them:" what you say is something new, it is not in our old scriptures."
Of course, God speaks new revelations, new words that is why they are not in old scriptures.

Mark Fulton Wrote:Jews regarded the Law almost like a gift from their God, not a curse, or an imposition on freedom.

You don't understand why Paul called law "curse". When there is no law, there is no sin. When there is no sin, there is no curse (death/hell).
when there is law, there is sin, when there is sin there is curse(death/hell)

Mark Fulton Wrote:They didn’t recognise a “new covenant.” Why would they give up centuries of tradition to believe a renegade like Paul?

Yes, why would they give up traditions that didn't come from God Yahweh? but were traditions of men?

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31-10-2015, 08:11 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(31-10-2015 07:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Mark Fulton Wrote:Paul claimed:
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Gal. 2;16, KJV) and
Mark Fulton Wrote:“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Gal. 3:13, KJV) and
Mark Fulton Wrote:“Before faith came, we were allowed no freedom by the Law; we were being looked after till faith was revealed. The law was to be our guardian until the Christ came and we could be justified by faith. Now that that time has come we are no longer under that guardian, and you are, all of you, sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. All baptized in Christ, you have all clothed yourself in Christ, and there are no more distinctions between Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female, but all of you are one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:23–28, NJB.)
Mark Fulton Wrote:Jews didn’t buy this. They wouldn’t be Jewish if they did. They believed - and still do - that the way to find favor with God was to obey “the Law” - that is, the Torah, as allegedly taught by Moses.

Question: are you saying that Paul was teaching that to obey God's laws was not important any more? Because if this is what you are saying I want to know where you got this idea from?


Mark Fulton Wrote:There’s no mention in their scriptures about an end to the covenant God made with their ancestors on Mount Sinai.

So what if there is no mention in their Scriptures? By the way why did Jews stone to death almost all their ancient prophets while those prophets lived and walked on earth? But later they accepted them? Because Jews and the rest of tribes were saying to them:" what you say is something new, it is not in our old scriptures."
Of course, God speaks new revelations, new words that is why they are not in old scriptures.

Mark Fulton Wrote:Jews regarded the Law almost like a gift from their God, not a curse, or an imposition on freedom.

You don't understand why Paul called law "curse". When there is no law, there is no sin. When there is no sin, there is no curse (death/hell).
when there is law, there is sin, when there is sin there is curse(death/hell)

Mark Fulton Wrote:They didn’t recognise a “new covenant.” Why would they give up centuries of tradition to believe a renegade like Paul?

Yes, why would they give up traditions that didn't come from God Yahweh? but were traditions of men?

"Question: are you saying that Paul was teaching that to obey God's laws was not important any more?"

Hi Alla.

Yes.
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31-10-2015, 08:14 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(31-10-2015 08:11 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(31-10-2015 07:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  Question: are you saying that Paul was teaching that to obey God's laws was not important any more? Because if this is what you are saying I want to know where you got this idea from?



So what if there is no mention in their Scriptures? By the way why did Jews stone to death almost all their ancient prophets while those prophets lived and walked on earth? But later they accepted them? Because Jews and the rest of tribes were saying to them:" what you say is something new, it is not in our old scriptures."
Of course, God speaks new revelations, new words that is why they are not in old scriptures.


You don't understand why Paul called law "curse". When there is no law, there is no sin. When there is no sin, there is no curse (death/hell).
when there is law, there is sin, when there is sin there is curse(death/hell)


Yes, why would they give up traditions that didn't come from God Yahweh? but were traditions of men?

"Question: are you saying that Paul was teaching that to obey God's laws was not important any more?"

Hi Alla.

Yes.

"Because if this is what you are saying I want to know where you got this idea from?"

From Paul. He makes it clear it many passages.

Yet he contradicts himself elsewhere.

He was a mixed up man. I think moderately mentally unwell.
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31-10-2015, 08:25 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
"So what if there is no mention in their Scriptures?"

Well...Paul was talking about stuff that the real followers and family of Jesus found heretical. That highlights a fundamental irony about the origins of Christianity. I find that interesting.
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31-10-2015, 08:30 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
Challenge accepted.

Seconds away ... etc etc.

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31-10-2015, 08:41 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(31-10-2015 07:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Mark Fulton Wrote:Paul claimed:
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Gal. 2;16, KJV) and
Mark Fulton Wrote:“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Gal. 3:13, KJV) and
Mark Fulton Wrote:“Before faith came, we were allowed no freedom by the Law; we were being looked after till faith was revealed. The law was to be our guardian until the Christ came and we could be justified by faith. Now that that time has come we are no longer under that guardian, and you are, all of you, sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. All baptized in Christ, you have all clothed yourself in Christ, and there are no more distinctions between Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female, but all of you are one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:23–28, NJB.)
Mark Fulton Wrote:Jews didn’t buy this. They wouldn’t be Jewish if they did. They believed - and still do - that the way to find favor with God was to obey “the Law” - that is, the Torah, as allegedly taught by Moses.

Question: are you saying that Paul was teaching that to obey God's laws was not important any more? Because if this is what you are saying I want to know where you got this idea from?


Mark Fulton Wrote:There’s no mention in their scriptures about an end to the covenant God made with their ancestors on Mount Sinai.

So what if there is no mention in their Scriptures? By the way why did Jews stone to death almost all their ancient prophets while those prophets lived and walked on earth? But later they accepted them? Because Jews and the rest of tribes were saying to them:" what you say is something new, it is not in our old scriptures."
Of course, God speaks new revelations, new words that is why they are not in old scriptures.

Mark Fulton Wrote:Jews regarded the Law almost like a gift from their God, not a curse, or an imposition on freedom.

You don't understand why Paul called law "curse". When there is no law, there is no sin. When there is no sin, there is no curse (death/hell).
when there is law, there is sin, when there is sin there is curse(death/hell)

Mark Fulton Wrote:They didn’t recognise a “new covenant.” Why would they give up centuries of tradition to believe a renegade like Paul?

Yes, why would they give up traditions that didn't come from God Yahweh? but were traditions of men?

By the way why did Jews stone to death almost all their ancient prophets while those prophets lived and walked on earth?

Because they believed religious bullshit.

"Of course, God speaks new revelations, new words that is why they are not in old scriptures."

God doesn't exist. End of discussion.

You don't understand why Paul called law "curse".

Yes I do. It's complicated.

When there is no law, there is no sin. When there is no sin, there is no curse (death/hell).
when there is law, there is sin, when there is sin there is curse(death/hell)


I'm not sure you know what the Jewish "law" was.

Sin is an imaginary disease invented to sell an imaginary cure.

Death is the end of life ie the end of a person's existence.

Hell is an imaginary threat invented by priests to scare gullible people into being controlled by the priests.

A curse is asking your imaginary friend to harm someone. As all imaginary friends are… imaginary… it is harmless.

You can try and join the dots with your versions of these concepts, but I won't be drawn into it.
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31-10-2015, 08:47 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(31-10-2015 07:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Mark Fulton Wrote:Paul claimed:
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Gal. 2;16, KJV) and
Mark Fulton Wrote:“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Gal. 3:13, KJV) and
Mark Fulton Wrote:“Before faith came, we were allowed no freedom by the Law; we were being looked after till faith was revealed. The law was to be our guardian until the Christ came and we could be justified by faith. Now that that time has come we are no longer under that guardian, and you are, all of you, sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. All baptized in Christ, you have all clothed yourself in Christ, and there are no more distinctions between Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female, but all of you are one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:23–28, NJB.)
Mark Fulton Wrote:Jews didn’t buy this. They wouldn’t be Jewish if they did. They believed - and still do - that the way to find favor with God was to obey “the Law” - that is, the Torah, as allegedly taught by Moses.

Question: are you saying that Paul was teaching that to obey God's laws was not important any more? Because if this is what you are saying I want to know where you got this idea from?


Mark Fulton Wrote:There’s no mention in their scriptures about an end to the covenant God made with their ancestors on Mount Sinai.

So what if there is no mention in their Scriptures? By the way why did Jews stone to death almost all their ancient prophets while those prophets lived and walked on earth? But later they accepted them? Because Jews and the rest of tribes were saying to them:" what you say is something new, it is not in our old scriptures."
Of course, God speaks new revelations, new words that is why they are not in old scriptures.

Mark Fulton Wrote:Jews regarded the Law almost like a gift from their God, not a curse, or an imposition on freedom.

You don't understand why Paul called law "curse". When there is no law, there is no sin. When there is no sin, there is no curse (death/hell).
when there is law, there is sin, when there is sin there is curse(death/hell)

Mark Fulton Wrote:They didn’t recognise a “new covenant.” Why would they give up centuries of tradition to believe a renegade like Paul?

Yes, why would they give up traditions that didn't come from God Yahweh? but were traditions of men?

Yes, why would they give up traditions that didn't come from God Yahweh? but were traditions of men?

You almost got this right. They had been told by priests that the traditions originated from Yahweh, and they believed it. They were, after all, isolated, uninformed and uneducated compared to people today. They had an excuse. You don't.
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01-11-2015, 06:34 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
Hi! Thanks for being brave! Smile
(31-10-2015 08:41 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(31-10-2015 07:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  By the way why did Jews stone to death almost all their ancient prophets while those prophets lived and walked on earth?
Because they believed religious bullshit.
Good argument. Some people may even find it believable.
(31-10-2015 08:41 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(31-10-2015 07:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  "Of course, God speaks new revelations, new words that is why they are not in old scriptures."
God doesn't exist. End of discussion.
Of course. This is not what I want to talk about anyway. This is all about Paul and what he said about law.

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01-11-2015, 06:37 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(31-10-2015 08:11 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(31-10-2015 07:44 PM)Alla Wrote:  "Question: are you saying that Paul was teaching that to obey God's laws was not important any more?"
Hi Alla.
Yes.

Could you please provide one quote?

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01-11-2015, 07:06 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(01-11-2015 06:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(31-10-2015 08:11 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Hi Alla.
Yes.

Could you please provide one quote?

I can do better than that...

“And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.” (1 Corinthians 9:20-23, KJV)

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Gal. 2; 16, KJV)

“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Gal. 3:13, KJV)

“Before faith came, we were allowed no freedom by the Law; we were being looked after till faith was revealed. The law was to be our guardian until the Christ came and we could be justified by faith. Now that that time has come we are no longer under that guardian, and you are, all of you, sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. All baptized in Christ, you have all clothed yourself in Christ, and there are no more distinctions between Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female, but all of you are one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:23–28, NJB.)

“For you, my brothers, have been like the churches of God in Christ Jesus which are in Judaea, in suffering the same treatment from your own countrymen as they have suffered from the Jews, the people who put the Lord Jesus to death, and the prophets too. And now they have been persecuting us, and acting in a way that cannot please God and makes them the enemies of the whole human race, because they are hindering us from preaching to the pagans and trying to save them” (1 Thess. 2:14–16 JB.)
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