Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
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08-11-2015, 04:00 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
MARK:
Jeebus was a racist...
Most Christians assume Jesus loved anyone who accepted him;

ALLA:
yes, He loves them who accepts Him.

MARK:
Jesus had a personal interest in each and every individual. Yet they misunderstand their main man. Jesus did not love Gentiles (who he referred to as pagans.)
ALLA:
Oh, you better (please) give me a quote where He says this. I don't mind you to share with me your ideas, assumptions, opinions. They are very interesting. I am glad to hear them. But the main purpose of this thread is to know what Paul says or Jesus says according to the Bible, not what you claim or assume they say.

MARK
He told his disciples:
“Do not turn your steps to pagan territory, and do not enter any Samaritan town. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel” (Matt. 10:6, NJB.) He said:
“I was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel” (Matt. 15:24, NJB.)

ALLA:
Yes, He did say this (according to the Bible). I didn't see though His explanation "why?" Could you please find a quote for me with explanation so I can know what was in Jesus's mind(head)? I can't know what is in someone's head. I need to hear or to read the words.

If someone tells me:"Alla, don't go there". My first question would be "why?" If someone tells me: "I was sent only to that group of people?" My first question would be "why?".
So, where is the answer, Mark? Please, quotes, not your assumptions.

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08-11-2015, 04:10 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
MARK:
Jesus even told his fellow Jews not to pray like pagans (non Jewish people):
“And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard

ALLA:
And this suppose to tell me that He said this because He doesn't love pagans? Or may be He used them as an example how not to pray.
If you do something wrong and I criticize your action, do I criticize your actions because I don't love you? Is this what your logic tells you?
If I tell you how to do something right and then I use an example of how some do it wrong, does your logic tell you that it is because I don't love people whom I use as an example?
Strange logic. I don't get it.

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08-11-2015, 04:19 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
MARK:
Here is Jesus’ encounter with a Greek (i.e. non-Jewish) woman:

“He left that place and set out for the territory of Tyre. There he went into a house and did not want anyone to know he was there, but he could not pass unrecognized. A woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit heard about him straight away and came and fell at his feet. Now the woman was pagan, by birth a Syrophonecian and she begged him to cast the devil out of her daughter and he said to her ‘the children should be fed first, because it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the house dogs’. But she spoke up ‘Ah yes sir’ she replied ‘but the house dogs under the table can eat the children’s scraps’. And he said to her ‘for saying this, you may go home happy; the devil has gone out of your daughter’. So she went off to her home and found the child lying on the bed and the devil gone” (Mark 7:24–30, NJB.)

ALLA:
So, Jesus helped this Gentile women, He told her to go home happy, and I have to accept your assumption that He didn't love her, or didn't love women's daughter?Or that He was racist?
Is this what you are asking me to do?

ALLA:
Jesus, why didn't you help this women right away? Why did you say what you said?

JESUS:
Hmm, ask my little brother Mark Fulton. He is good at knowing My thoughts, My heart, My intentions, My conscience. Thumbsup

ALLA to Jesus:
Hmm, I prefer the answer in a form of quote from the Bible.

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08-11-2015, 04:30 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
MARK FULTON:
Racist Quotation From Mormon Official Source


"And [The LORD] had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity.
For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint;
wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
22 And thus saith the Lord God:
I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.
23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed;
for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing.
And the Lord spake it, and it was done.
24 And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey.
note:

ALLA:
So, God punishes His children for iniquity.
So, to punish your own children for inequity(wrong doing, evil doing) is racism. Do I understand you correctly?

Mark, I have a question:
Quote:
23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed;

Do you know why the seed of him who mixeth will be cursed? Please, do not give me your opinion. I am asking a quote from the same source where there is plain and clear explanation.

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08-11-2015, 04:36 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
MARK:
2Nephi was changed from 'white and delightsome' to 'pure and delightsome' in the 1978 edition of the Book of Mormon.

The phrase 'pure and delightsome' was actually in the original BofM manuscript, but got changed to 'white and delightsome' in one of the early editions and stayed that way until the corrections were made in 1978.
BOOK OF MORMON 2 Nephi 5:21

ALLA:
So? what is the difference? white color symbolizes purity. So "white" and "pure" is the same thing(synonyms) in the language of God and His prophets and His people.
"White" in this verse has nothing to do with skin color but with purity of hearts.

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08-11-2015, 06:38 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(08-11-2015 04:30 PM)Alla Wrote:  MARK FULTON:
Racist Quotation From Mormon Official Source


"And [The LORD] had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity.
For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint;
wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
22 And thus saith the Lord God:
I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities.
23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed;
for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing.
And the Lord spake it, and it was done.
24 And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey.
note:

ALLA:
So, God punishes His children for iniquity.
So, to punish your own children for inequity(wrong doing, evil doing) is racism. Do I understand you correctly?

Mark, I have a question:
Quote:
23 And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed;

Do you know why the seed of him who mixeth will be cursed? Please, do not give me your opinion. I am asking a quote from the same source where there is plain and clear explanation.

"wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

This is racism....no matter how you duck and weave, reinterpret or "put into context",
this is unacceptable.

Do you know why the seed of him who mixeth will be cursed?

No. And I don't care. I don't take the invented ramblings of an uneducated little empire builder (Joseph Smith) seriously....except if he writes racist comments that modern Mormons take seriously.
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08-11-2015, 07:50 PM (This post was last modified: 08-11-2015 07:56 PM by Alla.)
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
MARK:
"wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
This is racism....no matter how you duck and weave, reinterpret or "put into context",
this is unacceptable.
ALLA:
what is unacceptable? to become a person with a dark skin?
what is wrong with becoming a person with a dark skin?
you say it this way like to become a person with a dark skin is some kind of punishment, bad thing

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08-11-2015, 07:52 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
ALLA:
Do you know why the seed of him who mixeth will be cursed?

MARK:
No.

ALLA:
I know that you don't know and don't understnd. So, don't say "it is racist" if you don't understand what it means.

MARK:
And I don't care. I don't take the invented ramblings of an uneducated little empire builder (Joseph Smith) seriously....except if he writes racist comments that modern Mormons take seriously.
ALLA:
I don't want you to care about it. Just don't say that statement is racist when you don't understand the statement.

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08-11-2015, 08:00 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
"wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

If it was said "they might not to be enticed unto my people because they have black skin" it would be pure racism. But there is no such statement in this verse.

Question: why is it said not to be enticed unto Lord's people?
Mark Fulton has no idea. No idea. But he claims: racism, racism. I don't get it.

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09-11-2015, 03:00 AM (This post was last modified: 09-11-2015 03:04 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(08-11-2015 04:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  MARK:
Here is Jesus’ encounter with a Greek (i.e. non-Jewish) woman:

“He left that place and set out for the territory of Tyre. There he went into a house and did not want anyone to know he was there, but he could not pass unrecognized. A woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit heard about him straight away and came and fell at his feet. Now the woman was pagan, by birth a Syrophonecian and she begged him to cast the devil out of her daughter and he said to her ‘the children should be fed first, because it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the house dogs’. But she spoke up ‘Ah yes sir’ she replied ‘but the house dogs under the table can eat the children’s scraps’. And he said to her ‘for saying this, you may go home happy; the devil has gone out of your daughter’. So she went off to her home and found the child lying on the bed and the devil gone” (Mark 7:24–30, NJB.)

ALLA:
So, Jesus helped this Gentile women, He told her to go home happy, and I have to accept your assumption that He didn't love her, or didn't love women's daughter?Or that He was racist?
Is this what you are asking me to do?

ALLA:
Jesus, why didn't you help this women right away? Why did you say what you said?

JESUS:
Hmm, ask my little brother Mark Fulton. He is good at knowing My thoughts, My heart, My intentions, My conscience. Thumbsup

ALLA to Jesus:
Hmm, I prefer the answer in a form of quote from the Bible.

Alla, there was no gentile woman, and there may well have been no Jesus.

Someone (call him "Mark" if you like) was writing a story. He wanted to appeal to Jews, yet also to gentiles. Hence the wording. He made the Jews feel special by having Jeebus say they were more important than the gentiles, (dogs) but made out gentiles were ok too if they bought into the bullshit.

It was carefully composed political "spin."

Please consider the above, and you will appreciate how cleverly crafted some passages in the gospels are. You might also realise how futile and pointless it is trying to learn ethics from the babble.
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