Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
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09-11-2015, 03:16 AM (This post was last modified: 09-11-2015 03:20 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(08-11-2015 07:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  MARK:
"wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
This is racism....no matter how you duck and weave, reinterpret or "put into context",
this is unacceptable.
ALLA:
what is unacceptable? to become a person with a dark skin?
what is wrong with becoming a person with a dark skin?
you say it this way like to become a person with a dark skin is some kind of punishment, bad thing

Alla, you ask what is unacceptable?

The answer is clear...to associate being white with "fair and delightsome" and a skin of blackness with "not... enticing"

When these comments were written, c1840's in the USA, the meaning would have been even more obvious than it is today. Nothing you can say will change that fact.
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09-11-2015, 03:34 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
Alla, this is a debate about Paul which you started. How about you state your opinions about Paul.

Who was he?

Why did he write what he did?

From where did the source his theological ideas?

What did he know of Jesus?

What do you think about the relationship between Paul and the family and followers of Jesus?

From where did he source his ethical ideas? What do you think of his ethics?

How did his writing get into the Bible?

Please do your best to give an informed, scholarly and detailed reply to these questions. In that way we can have a discussion which interests everyone.
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09-11-2015, 04:01 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(09-11-2015 03:16 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  The answer is clear...to associate being white with "fair and delightsome" and a skin of blackness with "not... enticing"
It is not clear for you why those particular people with light skin could not be enticing with those particular people of dark skin.
If it is because of the skin color then it is pure racism.
But the source doesn't claim this reason.
If my white child has black friend and this black friend doing bad things I don't want my child near this friend. Is this because of his dark skin color? Or it is because he can be bad influence.
Or if my black child has white friend who does bad things I don't want my child near this friend. It is not because of white skin but because of bad influence.

You read the source than make assumptions. Most of the time wrong assumptions.

P.S. The source you refer to doesn't claim that to have black/dark skin is something bad, negative. It doesn't claim that the reason of not enticing is because of skin color.
This same source has examples when people with dark skin were more righteous than people with light skin. Examples where people with dark skin color were enticed with people of light skin color.

Your assumptions are wrong because you don't understand the source you read or you never read the source.

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09-11-2015, 04:12 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Alla, this is a debate about Paul which you started. How about you state your opinions about Paul.
Neither my opinions about Paul nor your opinions about Paul have nothing to do with the thread. It is only about what Paul said according to the Bible and about mark Fulton's assumptions.
But let me see if I can answer your questions out of respect.

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09-11-2015, 04:25 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Alla, this is a debate about Paul which you started. How about you state your opinions about Paul.
Who was he?
Apostle of Jesus Christ. Prophet of God (according to the Bible)
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Why did he write what he did?
Because this is what prophets and leaders of Christ's true Church do. They write scriptures. (according to the Bible)
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  From where did the source his theological ideas?
Revelations are from God. Paul's opinions are from Paul.
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  What did he know of Jesus?
Whatever was revealed to him either in vision, or by the power of the Holy Ghost. (according to the Bible)
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  What do you think about the relationship between Paul and the family and followers of Jesus?
He loved them and he did the best he could to serve them. He did it to the best of his ability. This what I believe. I believe that relationship were not perfect and they are not suppose to be.
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  From where did he source his ethical ideas?
Some of them were inspired by God, some were his own ideas.
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  What do you think of his ethics?
It is not fair for a person in the 21st century to judge ethics of a person who lived 2000 years ago in strange culture and whom I didn't know.

(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  How did his writing get into the Bible?
Do you mean how copies of copies of some other copies of his writings got into the Bible? Some men whom I don't trust and whom didn't have any authority from God decided what they will include in canon and what they won't.

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09-11-2015, 05:34 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(09-11-2015 04:12 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Alla, this is a debate about Paul which you started. How about you state your opinions about Paul.
Neither my opinions about Paul nor your opinions about Paul have nothing to do with the thread. It is only about what Paul said according to the Bible and about mark Fulton's assumptions.
But let me see if I can answer your questions out of respect.

No. You don't get to tell me my opinions don't count. They do.
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09-11-2015, 05:49 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
MARK FULTON:
"There is a reason why one man is BORN BLACK and with other DISADVANTAGES while another is BORN WHITE with great ADVANTAGES.
The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there.
Those who were faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful received less."
Mormon President and Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, "Doctrines of Salvation", pp. 61.


ALLA:
I don't believe this opinion to be true. Personal opinions of prophets are not LDS Doctrine. And prophets may say something that many will find racist. Prophets may say something that is false. People often have opinions that are far from the truth.

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09-11-2015, 05:51 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(09-11-2015 05:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 04:12 PM)Alla Wrote:  Neither my opinions about Paul nor your opinions about Paul have nothing to do with the thread. It is only about what Paul said according to the Bible and about mark Fulton's assumptions.
But let me see if I can answer your questions out of respect.

No. You don't get to tell me my opinions don't count. They do.
I never said that your opinions don't count. They do, but not in this thread. This thread is not about your opinions or my opinions of Paul, but it is about what Paul said or didn't say according to the Bible. Smile

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09-11-2015, 06:29 PM (This post was last modified: 09-11-2015 06:35 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(09-11-2015 04:25 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Alla, this is a debate about Paul which you started. How about you state your opinions about Paul.
Who was he?
Apostle of Jesus Christ. Prophet of God (according to the Bible)
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Why did he write what he did?
Because this is what prophets and leaders of Christ's true Church do. They write scriptures. (according to the Bible)
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  From where did the source his theological ideas?
Revelations are from God. Paul's opinions are from Paul.
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  What did he know of Jesus?
Whatever was revealed to him either in vision, or by the power of the Holy Ghost. (according to the Bible)
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  What do you think about the relationship between Paul and the family and followers of Jesus?
He loved them and he did the best he could to serve them. He did it to the best of his ability. This what I believe. I believe that relationship were not perfect and they are not suppose to be.
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  From where did he source his ethical ideas?
Some of them were inspired by God, some were his own ideas.
(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  What do you think of his ethics?
It is not fair for a person in the 21st century to judge ethics of a person who lived 2000 years ago in strange culture and whom I didn't know.

(09-11-2015 03:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  How did his writing get into the Bible?
Do you mean how copies of copies of some other copies of his writings got into the Bible? Some men whom I don't trust and whom didn't have any authority from God decided what they will include in canon and what they won't.

Alla,

you have a very simplistic understanding. If that makes you happy, and you don't want to learn anything more, that's fine, but if so, why are you here?

I'm afraid conversation at your level is just too boring for our readers. Me making fun of you might give some of them a laugh, but ultimately it's a bit pointless.

If you want to "raise the bar" and discuss real history, I'll walk with you on the journey.
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09-11-2015, 06:34 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(09-11-2015 05:51 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 05:34 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  No. You don't get to tell me my opinions don't count. They do.
I never said that your opinions don't count. They do, but not in this thread. This thread is not about your opinions or my opinions of Paul, but it is about what Paul said or didn't say according to the Bible. Smile

No. Sorry, but this thread is about my opinion of Paul. If you want to make it just about what Paul said, start another thread, preferably on a pro Christian forum...or just read the bible.
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