Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
Thread Closed 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
04-11-2015, 03:18 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
MARK:
According to Paul, there was now no need for circumcision
ALLA: True. Paul said this. and there is a reason for that

MARK:
or to stop work on the Sabbath.
ALLA:
No, he didn't say that we can work on Sabbath.

MARK:
The dietary kosher rules were out; bacon was on the breakfast menu, with shellfish salad for lunch.
ALLA:
true, and there is a reason for that.


MARK:
Paul made the extraordinary claim that to obey the Roman government was to obey God.
ALLA:
So did Jesus. Jesus also made this claim. And Jesus is God according to the Bible

MARK:
Paul downplayed the importance of the Jewish temple,
ALLA:
No, he didn't. Or do you have any quote?

MARK:
The “kingdom of God,” according to Paul, became a place in heaven, not in Israel.
ALLA:
please quotes

MARK:
Paul declared Yahweh was such a decent deity he had sent his own precious son, the Christ, to earth.
ALLA:
Paul did not say that Christ's Father was Yahweh. Paul knew that Jesus is Yahweh.

MARK:
Paul alleged Gentiles were descendants of Abraham too,
ALLA:
No, he did not say this. please quote. How about Moses? what did he say about Abraham and Gentiles according to your Bible?

MARK:
and that the centuries-old Jewish Law was a “curse,” and a type of “slavery.”
ALLA:
and I explain to you why he said this. Nobody obeys all Gods laws. Nobody can be justified by laws. Break only one law of God like Adam did and that's it, you are doomed forever.

MARK:
All that was now required was faith in Paul’s claims about Christ. Voilà! The Christ myth and Christian theology were born.
ALLA:
not true, Paul never said this according to the Bible you read. He never said: "all requires is faith in Christ.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
04-11-2015, 03:41 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
God gave to His covenant people law - to stone to death those who break some laws.
Jesus was accused by Jews in breaking many God's laws. Jews did not stone Him to death. They did not obey this law of God.
Why? Because they obeyed laws of Roman Empire.
God would never tell Jews to be criminals in country they live.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
04-11-2015, 04:08 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
MARK said:
Paul made the extraordinary claim that to obey the Roman government was to obey God.
then ALLA said:
So did Jesus. Jesus also made this claim. And Jesus is God according to the Bible

ALLA:
Mark, I read your comment once again and I realized that my response was wrong.
My response is this:
please quotes where Paul said that to obey Roman government is to obey God.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
04-11-2015, 06:43 PM (This post was last modified: 04-11-2015 07:22 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(04-11-2015 02:55 PM)Alla Wrote:  Law of God is will of God. God gives many laws(instructions) to His covenant people. Every law has to be obeyed. God did not say that we may choose which law to obey and which not to obey. He didn't say that it is OK to break some of His laws.
We have to obey all His laws. But we do not do this, don't we? That is why we can not be justified by law. Only that person who never broke any God's laws can be justified by law.
Adam broke only one law and He could not be in presence of God anymore. Law could not justify Adam.

Mark, you say that Paul was teaching to replace obedience to the law with faith in Christ.
But to have faith in God(Christ) is the law of God. God requires His covenant people to have faith in Him. Why? Because if there is no faith in God it will be no obedience to other laws of God, it will be no love towards God.
have faith - it is law(commandment) from God
love God - it is law(commandment) from God
love people - it is law(commandment) from God
do not kill - it is law commandment from God
observe Sabbath - it is law (commandment) from God
pay tithing - it is law(commandment) from God

P.S. So, what is law of God according to your understanding?

Alla, I'm not sure how old you are or how educated, so forgive me if this sounds patronising. I hope you are aware that most of the New Testament was originally first written in the first century. "God's law" then meant the Jewish interpretation of the Torah. So when Paul wrote, that is most definitely what he meant by "the law". Learn about it here...

http://www.jewfaq.org/halakhah.htm

http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
[+] 1 user Likes Mark Fulton's post
04-11-2015, 06:52 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2015 02:12 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(04-11-2015 02:55 PM)Alla Wrote:  Law of God is will of God. God gives many laws(instructions) to His covenant people. Every law has to be obeyed. God did not say that we may choose which law to obey and which not to obey. He didn't say that it is OK to break some of His laws.
We have to obey all His laws. But we do not do this, don't we? That is why we can not be justified by law. Only that person who never broke any God's laws can be justified by law.
Adam broke only one law and He could not be in presence of God anymore. Law could not justify Adam.

Mark, you say that Paul was teaching to replace obedience to the law with faith in Christ.
But to have faith in God(Christ) is the law of God. God requires His covenant people to have faith in Him. Why? Because if there is no faith in God it will be no obedience to other laws of God, it will be no love towards God.
have faith - it is law(commandment) from God
love God - it is law(commandment) from God
love people - it is law(commandment) from God
do not kill - it is law commandment from God
observe Sabbath - it is law (commandment) from God
pay tithing - it is law(commandment) from God

P.S. So, what is law of God according to your understanding?

"Law of God is will of God."

No. Look up about the Torah. God doesn't exist...he is a fictional character invented by Jewish priests to control people like you.

"God gives many laws(instructions) to His covenant people. Every law has to be obeyed. God did not say that we may choose which law to obey and which not to obey. He didn't say that it is OK to break some of His laws.
We have to obey all His laws. But we do not do this, don't we? That is why we can not be justified by law. Only that person who never broke any God's laws can be justified by law."


See above. Take a few big deep breaths. Listen to your surroundings. Just be still.

There is no god. No one is judging you. You don't need to obey "god's law." Just be nice to others and to yourself.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
04-11-2015, 07:20 PM (This post was last modified: 04-11-2015 07:35 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(04-11-2015 02:58 PM)Alla Wrote:  MARK:
Alla, Paul said it was no longer necessary to obey "the law."

ALLA:
No, he didn't. Show me at least one quote: it is no longer necessary to obey the law? Where did Paul tech to kill, to lie, to commit adultery?

"MARK:
Alla, Paul said it was no longer necessary to obey "the law."

ALLA:
No, he didn't. Show me at least one quote:
"

Just maybe you now know what "the law" was. It was what the Jewish priests told the people would please God. Paul tried to change all that.

I'm repeating myself...but you asked for quotes...

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Gal. 2; 16, KJV) and

“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Gal. 3:13, KJV) and

“Before faith came, we were allowed no freedom by the Law; we were being looked after till faith was revealed. The law was to be our guardian until the Christ came and we could be justified by faith. Now that that time has come we are no longer under that guardian, and you are, all of you, sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. All baptized in Christ, you have all clothed yourself in Christ, and there are no more distinctions between Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female, but all of you are one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:23–28, NJB.)

Paul quite clearly thought that faith in his Christ made the Jewish Law redundant. Jews, however, did not buy this. They would not be Jewish if they did. James’ letter in the Bible directly contradicts Paul’s assertions. The Jews believed - and still do - that the way to find favor with God was to obey “the Law” - that is, the Torah, as allegedly taught by Moses. There is no mention in their Scriptures about an end to the covenant God made with their ancestors on Mount Sinai. Jews regarded the Law almost as a gift from their God, not a curse, or an imposition on freedom. No Jews, including the Nazarenes, recognized a “new covenant.” Why would they give up centuries of tradition to believe a renegade such as Paul?
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
[+] 1 user Likes Mark Fulton's post
04-11-2015, 07:26 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(04-11-2015 04:08 PM)Alla Wrote:  MARK said:
Paul made the extraordinary claim that to obey the Roman government was to obey God.
then ALLA said:
So did Jesus. Jesus also made this claim. And Jesus is God according to the Bible

ALLA:
Mark, I read your comment once again and I realized that my response was wrong.
My response is this:
please quotes where Paul said that to obey Roman government is to obey God.

"please quotes where Paul said that to obey Roman government is to obey God."

Here we go...again. Paul wrote to a Jewish community in Rome and encouraged them to be servile to the Roman government:

“Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.” (Romans 13:1-10 NIV.)

No other passages highlight Paul’s affiliation with the Romans with such transparency. Any suggestion that Paul was writing only as a spiritual leader can be questioned after reading this.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
[+] 2 users Like Mark Fulton's post
04-11-2015, 07:32 PM (This post was last modified: 05-11-2015 02:14 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(04-11-2015 03:41 PM)Alla Wrote:  God gave to His covenant people law - to stone to death those who break some laws.
Jesus was accused by Jews in breaking many God's laws. Jews did not stone Him to death. They did not obey this law of God.
Why? Because they obeyed laws of Roman Empire.
God would never tell Jews to be criminals in country they live.

God gave to His covenant people law - to stone to death those who break some laws.
Jesus was accused by Jews in breaking many God's laws. Jews did not stone Him to death. They did not obey this law of God.
Why? Because they obeyed laws of Roman Empire.


True.

Imagine the carnage our society would be in if everyone lived by "God's law."

You should be very very grateful there are such things as secular governments.

"God would never tell Jews to be criminals in country they live."

"God" doesn't tell anybody anything because he doesn't exist. "He" is an imaginary entity made up by priests to control the common plebs. Please stop imagining what your imaginary friend thinks. Please start thinking for yourself. You will be happier, wealthier and wiser if you do.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
[+] 3 users Like Mark Fulton's post
05-11-2015, 02:32 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(04-11-2015 03:18 PM)Alla Wrote:  MARK:
According to Paul, there was now no need for circumcision
ALLA: True. Paul said this. and there is a reason for that

MARK:
or to stop work on the Sabbath.
ALLA:
No, he didn't say that we can work on Sabbath.

MARK:
The dietary kosher rules were out; bacon was on the breakfast menu, with shellfish salad for lunch.
ALLA:
true, and there is a reason for that.


MARK:
Paul made the extraordinary claim that to obey the Roman government was to obey God.
ALLA:
So did Jesus. Jesus also made this claim. And Jesus is God according to the Bible

MARK:
Paul downplayed the importance of the Jewish temple,
ALLA:
No, he didn't. Or do you have any quote?

MARK:
The “kingdom of God,” according to Paul, became a place in heaven, not in Israel.
ALLA:
please quotes

MARK:
Paul declared Yahweh was such a decent deity he had sent his own precious son, the Christ, to earth.
ALLA:
Paul did not say that Christ's Father was Yahweh. Paul knew that Jesus is Yahweh.

MARK:
Paul alleged Gentiles were descendants of Abraham too,
ALLA:
No, he did not say this. please quote. How about Moses? what did he say about Abraham and Gentiles according to your Bible?

MARK:
and that the centuries-old Jewish Law was a “curse,” and a type of “slavery.”
ALLA:
and I explain to you why he said this. Nobody obeys all Gods laws. Nobody can be justified by laws. Break only one law of God like Adam did and that's it, you are doomed forever.

MARK:
All that was now required was faith in Paul’s claims about Christ. Voilà! The Christ myth and Christian theology were born.
ALLA:
not true, Paul never said this according to the Bible you read. He never said: "all requires is faith in Christ.

"MARK:
Paul downplayed the importance of the Jewish temple,
ALLA:
No, he didn't. Or do you have any quote?"


Most Jews (the Samaritans were an exception) believed God dwelt in the temple, in Jerusalem, Israel’s capital. Paul made a cavalier dismissal of the importance of Israel by suggesting that all believers become a temple for God:

“And that is what we are—the temple of the living God” (2 Cor. 6:15, NJB) and

“Didn’t you realize that you were God’s Temple” (1 Cor. 3:16 JB.)

Paul was trying to expand God’s seat of power out of Jerusalem and into the whole known world. Yet for most first century Jews, this downplayed the importance of the temple, the geographical pivot of Judaism.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
05-11-2015, 02:39 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(04-11-2015 03:18 PM)Alla Wrote:  MARK:
According to Paul, there was now no need for circumcision
ALLA: True. Paul said this. and there is a reason for that

MARK:
or to stop work on the Sabbath.
ALLA:
No, he didn't say that we can work on Sabbath.

MARK:
The dietary kosher rules were out; bacon was on the breakfast menu, with shellfish salad for lunch.
ALLA:
true, and there is a reason for that.


MARK:
Paul made the extraordinary claim that to obey the Roman government was to obey God.
ALLA:
So did Jesus. Jesus also made this claim. And Jesus is God according to the Bible

MARK:
Paul downplayed the importance of the Jewish temple,
ALLA:
No, he didn't. Or do you have any quote?

MARK:
The “kingdom of God,” according to Paul, became a place in heaven, not in Israel.
ALLA:
please quotes

MARK:
Paul declared Yahweh was such a decent deity he had sent his own precious son, the Christ, to earth.
ALLA:
Paul did not say that Christ's Father was Yahweh. Paul knew that Jesus is Yahweh.

MARK:
Paul alleged Gentiles were descendants of Abraham too,
ALLA:
No, he did not say this. please quote. How about Moses? what did he say about Abraham and Gentiles according to your Bible?

MARK:
and that the centuries-old Jewish Law was a “curse,” and a type of “slavery.”
ALLA:
and I explain to you why he said this. Nobody obeys all Gods laws. Nobody can be justified by laws. Break only one law of God like Adam did and that's it, you are doomed forever.

MARK:
All that was now required was faith in Paul’s claims about Christ. Voilà! The Christ myth and Christian theology were born.
ALLA:
not true, Paul never said this according to the Bible you read. He never said: "all requires is faith in Christ.

"MARK:
or to stop work on the Sabbath.
ALLA:
No, he didn't say that we can work on Sabbath."


Colossians 2:16-17King James Version (KJV)

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Thread Closed 
Forum Jump: