Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
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07-11-2015, 05:07 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(07-11-2015 03:27 PM)Alla Wrote:  Summary of some things we discussed

MARK claims:
Paul said that Roman government has power of/from God
ALLA says:
Paul said no such thing. Paul said that "the authorities that exist have been established by God".
That's all he said. But Mark and scholars assume that Paul was talking about the things pertaining of the world and not about the things pertaining of God's kingdom on Earth. In God's kingdom on Earth all powers that exist have been established by God.
Paul was teaching about God and kingdom of God on Earth and Heaven. Paul was teaching that authorities in God's Kingdom are from God. Paul was not teaching that in the world authorities come form God.

MARK claims that Paul was saying that Jewish Law has to be replaced by faith in Christ.
ALLA says:
Paul said no such thing. Paul said that nobody can be justified by Jewish Law.
But neither Mark no scholars have a slight idea what it means "to be or not to be justified by Jewish Law". It would be great if Paul explained it to them. But Paul is not available.


MARK claims:
that Paul was teaching that masters have power of God.
ALLA says:
Paul said no such thing. Paul said that servants have to be subject onto masters. But did Paul say that it is because masters have power of/from God?
If yes, please show me at least one verse.

If Jesus was slave what would He do? He would do what He always did - He would be subject onto trial and He would serve(helped, healed) His master like He hilled the ear of a man who came to arrest Him. and He would love His enemies(masters). He would do what Joseph of old did when he was slave.

To be subject to master is an opportunity to LEARN to love evil master, to love enemy. Paul was teaching that in any situation we are (even slavery) we can learn TO BE LIKE CHRIST. This way even if we are slaves we can learn how to be better people. Not because master have power of/from God.

Joseph of old was a slave. But because he was like Christ he became one of the most important people.
It doesn't mean that all slaves end up like Joseph ended up. He also had important mission to save house of Israel. But it means that we can have opportunities in any circumstances to be like Christ. Even slaves have opportunity to love, to serve, to forgive, to go on perfection, to be like Christ.

This is what Paul was teaching, but neither Mark no scholars would ever understand it. Of course, they don't have the most important Scholar - Spirit who teaches and testifies about all truth.

If Jesus was slave what would He do?

He would try to start an insurrection in Jerusalem and probably get crucified for his efforts. Thumbsup Hang on...Gasp
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07-11-2015, 05:22 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
ALLA:
If Jesus was slave what would He do?

MARK:
He would try to start an insurrection in Jerusalem and probably get crucified for his efforts. Thumbsup Hang on...Gasp


ALLA:
Yes, you can say this if you never read the Bible. But if you ever read the Bible you would give different answer.
Jesus would do what He was teaching His followers to do. And it is not what you are saying.

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07-11-2015, 05:27 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(07-11-2015 03:27 PM)Alla Wrote:  Summary of some things we discussed

MARK claims:
Paul said that Roman government has power of/from God
ALLA says:
Paul said no such thing. Paul said that "the authorities that exist have been established by God".
That's all he said. But Mark and scholars assume that Paul was talking about the things pertaining of the world and not about the things pertaining of God's kingdom on Earth. In God's kingdom on Earth all powers that exist have been established by God.
Paul was teaching about God and kingdom of God on Earth and Heaven. Paul was teaching that authorities in God's Kingdom are from God. Paul was not teaching that in the world authorities come form God.

MARK claims that Paul was saying that Jewish Law has to be replaced by faith in Christ.
ALLA says:
Paul said no such thing. Paul said that nobody can be justified by Jewish Law.
But neither Mark no scholars have a slight idea what it means "to be or not to be justified by Jewish Law". It would be great if Paul explained it to them. But Paul is not available.


MARK claims:
that Paul was teaching that masters have power of God.
ALLA says:
Paul said no such thing. Paul said that servants have to be subject onto masters. But did Paul say that it is because masters have power of/from God?
If yes, please show me at least one verse.

If Jesus was slave what would He do? He would do what He always did - He would be subject onto trial and He would serve(helped, healed) His master like He hilled the ear of a man who came to arrest Him. and He would love His enemies(masters). He would do what Joseph of old did when he was slave.

To be subject to master is an opportunity to LEARN to love evil master, to love enemy. Paul was teaching that in any situation we are (even slavery) we can learn TO BE LIKE CHRIST. This way even if we are slaves we can learn how to be better people. Not because master have power of/from God.

Joseph of old was a slave. But because he was like Christ he became one of the most important people.
It doesn't mean that all slaves end up like Joseph ended up. He also had important mission to save house of Israel. But it means that we can have opportunities in any circumstances to be like Christ. Even slaves have opportunity to love, to serve, to forgive, to go on perfection, to be like Christ.

This is what Paul was teaching, but neither Mark no scholars would ever understand it. Of course, they don't have the most important Scholar - Spirit who teaches and testifies about all truth.

" Jesus...would love His enemies(masters)."

Really?

“But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep” (Luke 6:24–25, KJV.)

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force” (Matt. 11:12, KJV.)

“Go nowhere among the gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt. 10:5–6, NJB.)

“Then he began to reproach the towns in which most of his miracles had been worked, because they refused to repent. ‘Alas for you Chorazin! Alas for you Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon they would have repented long ago in sack cloth and ashes. And still I tell you it will not go as hard on Judgment day on Tyre and Sidon as with you. And as for you Capernaum, did you want to be exalted as high as heaven? You shall be thrown down into hell. For if the miracles done in you had been done in Sodom, you would have been standing yet. And still I tell you that it will not go as hard with the land of Sodom on Judgment day as with you” (Matt. 11:20–24, NJB.)

“If you have no sword, sell your cloak and buy one” (Luke 22:36, NJB.)

“Anyone who believes in the Son has eternal life, but anyone who refuses to believe in the Son will never see life: the anger of God stays on him” (John 3:33, NJB.)

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16, NJB.)

“Anyone who does not remain in me is like a branch that has been thrown away—he withers; these branches are collected and thrown on the fire and they are burnt” (John 15:6, NJB.) (A similar quote is repeated in Mark 6:11.)

“Then he began to approach the towns in which most of his miracles had been worked, because they refused to repent. Alas for you Chorazin! Alas for you Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you were done in Tyre or Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sack cloth and ashes, and still I tell you that it will not go as hard on Judgment day on Tyre or Sidon as with you. And as for you Capernaum, did you want to be exalted as high as heaven? You shall be thrown down in hell for if the miracles done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have been standing yet. And still, I tell you that I will not go as hard with the land of Sodom on Judgment day as with you” (Matt. 11:20–24, NJB.)

“But as for my enemies who did not want me for their king, bring them here and execute them in my presence” (Luke 19:27, NJB.)

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! ...woe to you, blind guides...You blind fools!... You blind men!... You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?” (Matt. 23:13–34, NJB.)

“Well then, just as the darnel is gathered up and burnt in the fire, so it will be at the end of time. The Son of Man will send his angels and they will gather out of his kingdom all things that provoke offences and all who do evil, and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth” (Matt. 13:40–43, NJB.)

“Next he will say to those on his left hand ‘Go away from me with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels’’’ (Matt. 25:41, NJB.)

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth: it is not peace I have come to bring, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter in law against her mother in law. A man’s enemies will be those of his own household. Anyone who prefers father or mother to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who prefers son or daughter to me is not worthy of me. Anyone who does not take his cross and follow in my footsteps is not worthy of me. Anyone who finds his life will lose it; anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it” (Matt. 10:34–39, NJB.)

“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” (Luke 14:26, KJV.)

Alla, it appears the ol' "spirit" has been telling you a load of cock and bull about Jeebus.

You wouldn't want to meet Jeebus in first century Palestine. Anything could happen.
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07-11-2015, 05:36 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
According to the Bible man who came to arrest Jesus (to take away freedom from Jesus) was healed by Jesus. His ear was healed.
I wonder if that man became Christian?

So, Paul was teaching exactly what Jesus was teaching. According to the Bible Paul didn't teach his own religion as you claim.

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07-11-2015, 05:41 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(07-11-2015 05:36 PM)Alla Wrote:  According to the Bible man who came to arrest Jesus (to take away freedom from Jesus) was healed by Jesus. His ear was healed.
I wonder if that man became Christian?

So, Paul was teaching exactly what Jesus was teaching. According to the Bible Paul didn't teach his own religion as you claim.

Did the spirit tell you this?Facepalm
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07-11-2015, 05:46 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
ALLA:
" Jesus...would love His enemies(masters)."

MARK:
Really?
“But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep” (Luke 6:24–25, KJV.)

ALLA:
Yes, really. Correct, Jesus said this according to the Bible. But where (according to the Bible) did He say that to punish someone fairly = not to love them? In verse 27 Jesus tells to love all those kind of people. Why? Because Jesus loves them according to the Bible.

English is my second language.
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07-11-2015, 05:47 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(07-11-2015 05:36 PM)Alla Wrote:  According to the Bible man who came to arrest Jesus (to take away freedom from Jesus) was healed by Jesus. His ear was healed.
I wonder if that man became Christian?

So, Paul was teaching exactly what Jesus was teaching. According to the Bible Paul didn't teach his own religion as you claim.

According to the Bible man who came to arrest Jesus (to take away freedom from Jesus) was healed by Jesus. His ear was healed.
I wonder if that man became Christian?


I have it from a good source that he's very pissed off with the result...

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07-11-2015, 05:49 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(07-11-2015 05:41 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 05:36 PM)Alla Wrote:  According to the Bible man who came to arrest Jesus (to take away freedom from Jesus) was healed by Jesus. His ear was healed.
I wonder if that man became Christian?

So, Paul was teaching exactly what Jesus was teaching. According to the Bible Paul didn't teach his own religion as you claim.

Did the spirit tell you this?Facepalm
It is not relevant. The Bible doesn't say what you claim it says, and this is relevant.

English is my second language.
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07-11-2015, 05:50 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(07-11-2015 05:47 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 05:36 PM)Alla Wrote:  According to the Bible man who came to arrest Jesus (to take away freedom from Jesus) was healed by Jesus. His ear was healed.
I wonder if that man became Christian?

So, Paul was teaching exactly what Jesus was teaching. According to the Bible Paul didn't teach his own religion as you claim.

According to the Bible man who came to arrest Jesus (to take away freedom from Jesus) was healed by Jesus. His ear was healed.
I wonder if that man became Christian?


I have it from a good source that he's very pissed off with the result...
Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load
nice Thumbsup

English is my second language.
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07-11-2015, 05:52 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(07-11-2015 05:46 PM)Alla Wrote:  ALLA:
" Jesus...would love His enemies(masters)."

MARK:
Really?
“But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep” (Luke 6:24–25, KJV.)

ALLA:
Yes, really. Correct, Jesus said this according to the Bible. But where (according to the Bible) did He say that to punish someone fairly = not to love them? In verse 27 Jesus tells to love all those kind of people. Why? Because Jesus loves them according to the Bible.

In verse 27 Jesus tells to love all those kind of people. Why? Because Jesus loves them according to the Bible.

My verse 27 must be a misprint then No

“But as for my enemies who did not want me for their king, bring them here and execute them in my presence” (Luke 19:27, NJB.)
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