Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
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07-11-2015, 05:57 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(07-11-2015 05:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(07-11-2015 05:41 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Did the spirit tell you this?Facepalm
It is not relevant. The Bible doesn't say what you claim it says, and this is relevant.

I'm glad you realise that what the spirit tells you is not relevant. Please put forward an argument to back up your assertion... only then will anyone take any notice of you.
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07-11-2015, 05:57 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
MARK:
“Go nowhere among the gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt. 10:5–6, NJB.)
ALLA:
Yes, so? what is this suppose to mean? That Jesus teaches not love enemies? that Jesus teaches not to be subject onto masters? not to love Gentiles?

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07-11-2015, 06:04 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(07-11-2015 05:57 PM)Alla Wrote:  MARK:
“Go nowhere among the gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt. 10:5–6, NJB.)
ALLA:
Yes, so? what is this suppose to mean? That Jesus teaches not love enemies? that Jesus teaches not to be subject onto masters? not to love Gentiles?

Consider a more modern analogy. Joseph Smith and friends might say

"we don't want black people in our church. They are from inferior stock."

It's called racism.

Jeebus and ol' Joe were cut from the same cloth.
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07-11-2015, 06:16 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
MARK:
In verse 27 Jesus tells to love all those kind of people. Why? Because Jesus loves them according to the Bible.

My verse 27 must be a misprint then No

“But as for my enemies who did not want me for their king, bring them here and execute them in my presence” (Luke 19:27, NJB.)

ALLA:
I was talking about verse 27 in chapter 6.
Chapter 19. Jesus is teaching about God and His Kingdom in this chapter. Jesus didn't have crown yet. He didn't reign over people yet. So,
verse 27 : Jesus doesn't tell His disciples to be violent, not to love their enemies, not to be subject to masters.

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07-11-2015, 06:26 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(07-11-2015 05:36 PM)Alla Wrote:  According to the Bible man who came to arrest Jesus (to take away freedom from Jesus) was healed by Jesus. His ear was healed.
I wonder if that man became Christian?

So, Paul was teaching exactly what Jesus was teaching. According to the Bible Paul didn't teach his own religion as you claim.

"So, Paul was teaching exactly what Jesus was teaching."

Really?

Paul claimed:

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Gal. 2; 16, KJV) and

“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law” (Gal. 3:13, KJV) and

“Before faith came, we were allowed no freedom by the Law; we were being looked after till faith was revealed. The law was to be our guardian until the Christ came and we could be justified by faith. Now that that time has come we are no longer under that guardian, and you are, all of you, sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. All baptized in Christ, you have all clothed yourself in Christ, and there are no more distinctions between Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female, but all of you are one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:23–28, NJB.)

Yet Jesus said,

“Do not imagine that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish them but complete them. I tell you solemnly, till heaven and earth disappear, not one dot, not one little stroke, shall disappear from the Law until its purpose is achieved” (Matt. 5:17–18 JB.)


Mmmmmm.

There is a serious discrepancy between Jesus' Judaism and Paul's Christianity here. You better ask the spirit what he thinks, but please only reply if you are not trying to avoid the question.
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07-11-2015, 06:31 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
MARK:
“Go nowhere among the gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt. 10:5–6, NJB.)
ALLA:
Yes, so? what is this suppose to mean? That Jesus teaches not love enemies? that Jesus teaches not to be subject onto masters? not to love Gentiles?

MARK:
Consider a more modern analogy. Joseph Smith and friends might say
"we don't want black people in our church. They are from inferior stock."
It's called racism.
OJeebus and ol' Joe were cut from the same cloth.


ALLA:
Oh, I agree with you 100% that this would be racism. But neither Jesus no Joseph Smith ever said such horrible thing.
http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-y...riesthood/

According to the Bible Jesus said not to go nowhere near Gentiles? But why did He say this? what was the reason according to the Bible?
Mark has no idea. But Mark assumes something then he claims "Jesus was racist", "Jesus was teaching not to love enemies, not to be subject unto masters, to be violent, etc


Yes, Mark?

P.S. Paul was teaching exactly what Jesus was teaching: to love enemies. how? by SERVING them. This is what Jesus did according to the Bible. Jesus healed His enemy. He healed his ear.

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07-11-2015, 06:40 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(07-11-2015 06:16 PM)Alla Wrote:  MARK:
In verse 27 Jesus tells to love all those kind of people. Why? Because Jesus loves them according to the Bible.

My verse 27 must be a misprint then No

“But as for my enemies who did not want me for their king, bring them here and execute them in my presence” (Luke 19:27, NJB.)

ALLA:
I was talking about verse 27 in chapter 6.
Chapter 19. Jesus is teaching about God and His Kingdom in this chapter. Jesus didn't have crown yet. He didn't reign over people yet. So,
verse 27 : Jesus doesn't tell His disciples to be violent, not to love their enemies, not to be subject to masters.

Pathetically weak, Alla.

Is da spirit having an off day?
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07-11-2015, 06:53 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(07-11-2015 06:31 PM)Alla Wrote:  MARK:
“Go nowhere among the gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt. 10:5–6, NJB.)
ALLA:
Yes, so? what is this suppose to mean? That Jesus teaches not love enemies? that Jesus teaches not to be subject onto masters? not to love Gentiles?

MARK:
Consider a more modern analogy. Joseph Smith and friends might say
"we don't want black people in our church. They are from inferior stock."
It's called racism.
OJeebus and ol' Joe were cut from the same cloth.


ALLA:
Oh, I agree with you 100% that this would be racism. But neither Jesus no Joseph Smith ever said such horrible thing.
http://mormonmatters.org/2008/06/08/30-y...riesthood/

According to the Bible Jesus said not to go nowhere near Gentiles? But why did He say this? what was the reason according to the Bible?
Mark has no idea. But Mark assumes something then he claims "Jesus was racist", "Jesus was teaching not to love enemies, not to be subject unto masters, to be violent, etc


Yes, Mark?

P.S. Paul was teaching exactly what Jesus was teaching: to love enemies. how? by SERVING them. This is what Jesus did according to the Bible. Jesus healed His enemy. He healed his ear.

"But neither Jesus no Joseph Smith ever said such horrible thing."


Allah, the nasty little cult that you belong to has a long history of racism. Nowadays their spin doctors are working hard to rewrite history, yet they can't change the facts.

A cut and paste...

"Yesterday as I was driving home from Michigan I got an email from a reader who wanted me to know that “The conversation on your blog is raging that blacks are all the descendants of Cain.”

So today I took a look at the comments, and I don’t see a “raging” discussion on that topic, nor do I see evidence that contemporary Mormons hold views that people with black skin are “descendants of Cain.” Am I missing something?

But several comments do take up the question of whether Brigham Young was a racist. Both sides offer some quotes from him, and then further debate about whether those quotations are in full and in context.

So let’s talk about it. (This is going to run a bit longer than my usual posts, because this is a complex issue. If you want to stop reading here, the answer to the titular question is “Yes, but . . .”).

John Turner’s biography of Young does an excellent job of putting the man in his historical context—on racial views as on many other issues. I highly recommend the book. As Turner puts it,

“Young’s harsh conclusions about both the earthly and eternal places of black people, and the passion with which he expressed them, were not unusual in the mid-nineteenth-century United States. The vehemence with which Young expressed his racial views, however, contributed to the long-term exclusion of black men from the Mormon priesthood and black men and women from the church’s most sacred ordinances.”

Young’s record is mixed, but so is early Mormonism’s more generally. Some Mormons exempt Joseph Smith from this because Smith adopted an abolitionist platform when he ran for president in 1844 and he ordained several black and biracial men to the priesthood before his death. (Smith also apparently approved one biracial man’s appointment as a member of the Seventy.*)

Also, one of the underlying reasons for the Mormons’ controversial expulsion from Missouri was residents’ fear that the Mormons’ comparatively integrated worship and way of life would “corrupt our blacks & instigate them into bloodshed.”

The truth is more complicated, however. Mormonism did not suddenly “turn racist” when Smith died. Even while Smith was alive and running the church, Nauvoo prohibited interracial marriage and restricted voting and office-holding to white men.

And during the earlier Missouri period when the Saints were accused of over-friendly relations with African Americans, Mormons tried to deny the charges by promising they would “prevent [free blacks] from being admitted as members of the Church.” Joseph Smith said in 1838 that “the curse” was “not yet taken off the sons of Canaan,” although he also struck several racist statements from the official history of the Church when it was compiled that same year.*

A mixed record, then, even before Brigham Young was president of the Church.

Under Young, though, racism became systematically entrenched and codified. Whereas Elijah Abel/Ables had been able to perform sacred ordinances on behalf of two deceased members of his family (both female, interestingly enough), during Young’s presidency blacks were denied not only the priesthood but all access to endowment, temple marriage, and other temple rituals, including baptism for healing.

As for priesthood, Young said that “any man having one drop of the seed of Cane in him Cannot hold the priesthood, & if no other Prophet ever spake it Before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ.”

He went on to say that “the day will Come when all the seed of Cane will be Redeemed & have all the Blessings we have now & a great deal more”—presumably including the priesthood—but that “the seed of Abel will be ahead of the seed of Cane to all Eternity.”**

“All eternity.” In other words, Young thought whites would and should receive preferential treatment now and forever.

It makes me shudder.

Bottom line: Yes, Brigham Young was clearly a racist. If racism is as the dictionary defines it—“the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races”—then there is no denying it in Brigham Young.

- See more at: http://janariess.religionnews.com/2014/0...DPAxZ.dpuf
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07-11-2015, 06:59 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
(07-11-2015 06:40 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Pathetically weak, Alla.
Is da spirit having an off day?

I respectfully disagree. Jesus was teaching about God and His Kingdom in this chapter.
It was a story about Kingdom of God. Jesus didn't tell His disciples to attack people according to the Bible. Jesus did not attack people according to the Bible.

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07-11-2015, 07:07 PM
RE: Alla and Mark Fulton about Paul
So, Mark, I am glad you agree that neither Jesus nor Joseph Smith were racists. It is good.
That is why you found another person to accuse in racism. Nice. Very nice.

MARK:
So today I took a look at the comments, and I don’t see a “raging” discussion on that topic, nor do I see evidence that contemporary Mormons hold views that people with black skin are “descendants of Cain.” Am I missing something?
I don't know what it has to do with Paul and your false claims about what Paul said but I will answer your question.
I think you are missing something.

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