Alpha Sigma Sigma(ASS) should be this frat's name
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10-03-2015, 08:17 AM
RE: Alpha Sigma Sigma(ASS) should be this frat's name
Assholes AND idiots in one post...

The assholes -- anyone who uses the word "nigger" as a derogatory term to denigrate a fellow human being simply because of the color of their skin.

The idiots --- anyone who's so fuckin' "PC" that they spell it "n----r"..... Grow up already. It's as moronic as those twats who claim "G-d" is how you spell YHWH.

.......................................

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10-03-2015, 09:09 AM
RE: Alpha Sigma Sigma(ASS) should be this frat's name
(10-03-2015 07:44 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(09-03-2015 10:26 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  the students were suspended, IMO should have been expelled. They dropped the hammer swiftly and were harsh in their words about how wrong it is (university and national frat).

I completely disagree. The university should not have punished them at all. You have a right to be a bigot and say hateful things. That's what free speech is. The university president, a former governor and US Senator, made a comment about them "misusing" their free speech. That's total nonsense. You can't misuse free speech. The whole point is to protect unpopular and minority opinions. That just didn't apply to minority opinions you agree with. It equally applies to comments that turn your stomach. A so-called institute of higher learning that aspires to teach critical thinking should know better.

As for the national fraternity, they have every right to disassociate themselves from these idiots. But, that is laughable too. Did they just now figure out that they had no minority members? The mistake these guys made was publicizing something that had obviously been true for a very long time.

so the frat can dissassociate with the idiots, but the university cant? If I was Pres of the university I would want to be separate from them! I wouldnt want jerks like these guys walking out the door with a diploma from my school advertising that is what I teach. I want a better quality student, not jerks. Isnt that the point of the admissions process, do weed out those that don't have the grades, the ones that you want to represent your school?

Let them find a school that tolerates bigotry and racism.


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10-03-2015, 09:17 AM
RE: Alpha Sigma Sigma(ASS) should be this frat's name
I read a sports article about a student who decided not to take the athletic scholarship offer from OU (apparently he had committed to them) and is instead taking a different one from another school over this....while it is only one student, there may be more fallout over this that does affect the school. Athletic programs are a big thing in the south, and if you cant recruit top talent to keep it afloat- there will be big issues.


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10-03-2015, 09:33 AM
RE: Alpha Sigma Sigma(ASS) should be this frat's name
(10-03-2015 07:44 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(09-03-2015 10:26 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  the students were suspended, IMO should have been expelled. They dropped the hammer swiftly and were harsh in their words about how wrong it is (university and national frat).

I completely disagree. The university should not have punished them at all. You have a right to be a bigot and say hateful things. That's what free speech is. The university president, a former governor and US Senator, made a comment about them "misusing" their free speech. That's total nonsense. You can't misuse free speech. The whole point is to protect unpopular and minority opinions. That just didn't apply to minority opinions you agree with. It equally applies to comments that turn your stomach. A so-called institute of higher learning that aspires to teach critical thinking should know better.

As for the national fraternity, they have every right to disassociate themselves from these idiots. But, that is laughable too. Did they just now figure out that they had no minority members? The mistake these guys made was publicizing something that had obviously been true for a very long time.


Freedom of Speech means freedom from government interference (and even then, within reason). Last I checked, the government wasn't censoring them. Even here they still had the freedom to say what they wanted. But freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. As both college students and fraternity members, they voluntarily give up a certain amount of their freedom whenever they joined these groups. Not at all dissimilar to how your employer can place restrictions and expectations on you when you're hired. The government can't prevent you from mouthing off to a customer, but they likewise won't stop your employer from firing you over it either.


Once again, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

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10-03-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: Alpha Sigma Sigma(ASS) should be this frat's name
(10-03-2015 08:17 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Assholes AND idiots in one post...

The assholes -- anyone who uses the word "nigger" as a derogatory term to denigrate a fellow human being simply because of the color of their skin.

The idiots --- anyone who's so fuckin' "PC" that they spell it "n----r"..... Grow up already. It's as moronic as those twats who claim "G-d" is how you spell YHWH.


Thanks for reminding me of this Louis C.K. skit. Most assuredly NSFW!





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10-03-2015, 11:10 AM
RE: Alpha Sigma Sigma(ASS) should be this frat's name
(10-03-2015 09:33 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(10-03-2015 07:44 AM)BnW Wrote:  I completely disagree. The university should not have punished them at all. You have a right to be a bigot and say hateful things. That's what free speech is. The university president, a former governor and US Senator, made a comment about them "misusing" their free speech. That's total nonsense. You can't misuse free speech. The whole point is to protect unpopular and minority opinions. That just didn't apply to minority opinions you agree with. It equally applies to comments that turn your stomach. A so-called institute of higher learning that aspires to teach critical thinking should know better.

As for the national fraternity, they have every right to disassociate themselves from these idiots. But, that is laughable too. Did they just now figure out that they had no minority members? The mistake these guys made was publicizing something that had obviously been true for a very long time.


Freedom of Speech means freedom from government interference (and even then, within reason). Last I checked, the government wasn't censoring them. Even here they still had the freedom to say what they wanted. But freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. As both college students and fraternity members, they voluntarily give up a certain amount of their freedom whenever they joined these groups. Not at all dissimilar to how your employer can place restrictions and expectations on you when you're hired. The government can't prevent you from mouthing off to a customer, but they likewise won't stop your employer from firing you over it either.


Once again, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

So, you give up your right to free expression when you attend a university? I call bullshit. Free expression is what universities are built on. Or, at least they were before they became money sucking PC machines.

Secondly, the consequences I was responding to were those proposed by the state funded and run university. So, yes, this is an exact example of the state punishing speech. The national fraternity can do what they want, they are a private entity. The school, however, is not.

That aside, I'm one again stunned at how quick so many of this community are to advocate for the punishment of speech you disagree with. I throw out blasphemy laws and the threat of punishment for taking an atheistic position in public, and you all stand up and complain about your rights. I throw out the right to say "nigger" and you all run for cover and throw out bullshit arguments about consequences. I've got news for you - it's the same rights in play. And, there are people who consider pushing non belief of god the same as what these idiots did.

I'm curious what the reaction would be if this story was about these guys chanting about not accepting atheists. What if everything else was the same but that? The protests, the prayer vigils, the consequences - how do you think this thread would read under those circumstances? I've got a pretty good guess on that. It certainly wouldn't have the widespread condemnation and applause we've seen so far.

Once you accept that you can bully someone into silence, you've accepted it as a concept. There will always be people offended.

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10-03-2015, 11:21 AM
RE: Alpha Sigma Sigma(ASS) should be this frat's name
(10-03-2015 09:35 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(10-03-2015 08:17 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Assholes AND idiots in one post...

The assholes -- anyone who uses the word "nigger" as a derogatory term to denigrate a fellow human being simply because of the color of their skin.

The idiots --- anyone who's so fuckin' "PC" that they spell it "n----r"..... Grow up already. It's as moronic as those twats who claim "G-d" is how you spell YHWH.


Thanks for reminding me of this Louis C.K. skit. Most assuredly NSFW!





I thought of this too! Thumbsup
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10-03-2015, 11:41 AM
RE: Alpha Sigma Sigma(ASS) should be this frat's name
(10-03-2015 11:10 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(10-03-2015 09:33 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Freedom of Speech means freedom from government interference (and even then, within reason). Last I checked, the government wasn't censoring them. Even here they still had the freedom to say what they wanted. But freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. As both college students and fraternity members, they voluntarily give up a certain amount of their freedom whenever they joined these groups. Not at all dissimilar to how your employer can place restrictions and expectations on you when you're hired. The government can't prevent you from mouthing off to a customer, but they likewise won't stop your employer from firing you over it either.


Once again, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

So, you give up your right to free expression when you attend a university? I call bullshit. Free expression is what universities are built on. Or, at least they were before they became money sucking PC machines.

Secondly, the consequences I was responding to were those proposed by the state funded and run university. So, yes, this is an exact example of the state punishing speech. The national fraternity can do what they want, they are a private entity. The school, however, is not.

That aside, I'm one again stunned at how quick so many of this community are to advocate for the punishment of speech you disagree with. I throw out blasphemy laws and the threat of punishment for taking an atheistic position in public, and you all stand up and complain about your rights. I throw out the right to say "nigger" and you all run for cover and throw out bullshit arguments about consequences. I've got news for you - it's the same rights in play. And, there are people who consider pushing non belief of god the same as what these idiots did.

I'm curious what the reaction would be if this story was about these guys chanting about not accepting atheists. What if everything else was the same but that? The protests, the prayer vigils, the consequences - how do you think this thread would read under those circumstances? I've got a pretty good guess on that. It certainly wouldn't have the widespread condemnation and applause we've seen so far.

Once you accept that you can bully someone into silence, you've accepted it as a concept. There will always be people offended.

I hadnt considered whether or not the school was publicly funded, I tend to think of all of them as just businesses wanting to make a profit. my bad.

you make excellent points re the free speech aspect.

I will think it over and chime in later.


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10-03-2015, 11:45 AM
RE: Alpha Sigma Sigma(ASS) should be this frat's name
(10-03-2015 11:10 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(10-03-2015 09:33 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Freedom of Speech means freedom from government interference (and even then, within reason). Last I checked, the government wasn't censoring them. Even here they still had the freedom to say what they wanted. But freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. As both college students and fraternity members, they voluntarily give up a certain amount of their freedom whenever they joined these groups. Not at all dissimilar to how your employer can place restrictions and expectations on you when you're hired. The government can't prevent you from mouthing off to a customer, but they likewise won't stop your employer from firing you over it either.


Once again, freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

So, you give up your right to free expression when you attend a university? I call bullshit. Free expression is what universities are built on. Or, at least they were before they became money sucking PC machines.

Secondly, the consequences I was responding to were those proposed by the state funded and run university. So, yes, this is an exact example of the state punishing speech. The national fraternity can do what they want, they are a private entity. The school, however, is not.

That aside, I'm one again stunned at how quick so many of this community are to advocate for the punishment of speech you disagree with. I throw out blasphemy laws and the threat of punishment for taking an atheistic position in public, and you all stand up and complain about your rights. I throw out the right to say "nigger" and you all run for cover and throw out bullshit arguments about consequences. I've got news for you - it's the same rights in play. And, there are people who consider pushing non belief of god the same as what these idiots did.

I'm curious what the reaction would be if this story was about these guys chanting about not accepting atheists. What if everything else was the same but that? The protests, the prayer vigils, the consequences - how do you think this thread would read under those circumstances? I've got a pretty good guess on that. It certainly wouldn't have the widespread condemnation and applause we've seen so far.

Once you accept that you can bully someone into silence, you've accepted it as a concept. There will always be people offended.

I'm with BnW on this, especially since the news that two of the frat assholes have been expelled.

I think it reasonable that the university would evict the frat from a university-owned building, but expelling students is trampling on their right to free speech.

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10-03-2015, 01:37 PM
RE: Alpha Sigma Sigma(ASS) should be this frat's name
If they were actively discriminating against black members, preventing them from entering the frat, then yes they can and should be expelled.

If they were just saying stupid things then this was unjustified and illegal. I fully support the frat being disbanded, and perhaps a suspension for disciplinary reasons. That's valid. But expulsion for speech is a bit much.
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