Alt right protests
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14-08-2017, 02:04 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(14-08-2017 01:51 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(14-08-2017 01:43 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  I realize this may be hard for you to believe LDH, but I did hold some respect for Trump, as the holder of the office of the President of the United States.

Just another example of why any respect for someone in an office or not has to be earned. He never has been worthy of respect.

True. A lesson I've learned the hard way.

Also, the father of one of the marchers has released a statement (this is not the father of the car attacker). He's disowned his son and condemned him and his fellow brothers and sisters in racial hatred far more stridently than the President has, "I, along with all of his siblings and his entire family, wish to loudly repudiate my son’s vile, hateful, and racist rhetoric and actions ... It was the silence of good people that allowed the Nazis to flourish the first time around, and it is the silence of good people that is allowing them to flourish now ... Peter, you will have to shovel our bodies into the oven, too. Please son, renounce the hate, accept and love all."

Need to think of a witty signature.
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14-08-2017, 02:08 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(14-08-2017 01:33 PM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  
(14-08-2017 10:22 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Who gives a fuck? He's not attacking him for being black. What else should Trump say? Stop ignoring what he's already said.

Just another bullshit story. Fake outrage. I can't wait until the democrats lose even more in the midterms because of this crap.

So, what is he attacking him for then? What, in your mind, justifies this petty and small minded retort from someone who is supposed to occupy the highest office of the land, an office that traditionally carried with it a certain level of decorum, dignity, and measured, thoughtful responsiveness?

You have hit the nail spot on Stefan there is nothing but gross oafishness about the Trump presidency no dignity or refinement like we saw with Mr. Obama, he was a real gentleman a true statesman unlike the knuckle dragging troglodyte that is Trump.
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14-08-2017, 02:10 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(14-08-2017 02:04 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(14-08-2017 01:51 PM)morondog Wrote:  Just another example of why any respect for someone in an office or not has to be earned. He never has been worthy of respect.

True. A lesson I've learned the hard way.

Also, the father of one of the marchers has released a statement (this is not the father of the car attacker). He's disowned his son and condemned him and his fellow brothers and sisters in racial hatred far more stridently than the President has, "I, along with all of his siblings and his entire family, wish to loudly repudiate my son’s vile, hateful, and racist rhetoric and actions ... It was the silence of good people that allowed the Nazis to flourish the first time around, and it is the silence of good people that is allowing them to flourish now ... Peter, you will have to shovel our bodies into the oven, too. Please son, renounce the hate, accept and love all."

Well said that man. Hope more people pick up on this and do likewise. Sadly I doubt that the idiot in question will get the message.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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14-08-2017, 02:30 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(14-08-2017 02:10 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(14-08-2017 02:04 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  True. A lesson I've learned the hard way.

Also, the father of one of the marchers has released a statement (this is not the father of the car attacker). He's disowned his son and condemned him and his fellow brothers and sisters in racial hatred far more stridently than the President has, "I, along with all of his siblings and his entire family, wish to loudly repudiate my son’s vile, hateful, and racist rhetoric and actions ... It was the silence of good people that allowed the Nazis to flourish the first time around, and it is the silence of good people that is allowing them to flourish now ... Peter, you will have to shovel our bodies into the oven, too. Please son, renounce the hate, accept and love all."

Well said that man. Hope more people pick up on this and do likewise. Sadly I doubt that the idiot in question will get the message.

Silence played a role but far more dangerous was fear of left, lost war and failing economy. Without political climate being favorable to right Hitler probably would rot in prison for his grotesque putsch fiasco. Medting the hangman also wouldn't be out of question.



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14-08-2017, 02:40 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(14-08-2017 02:30 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  far more dangerous was fear of left, lost war and failing economy.

Hmm. Yeah. Failing economy is the thing that brings out the dickheads in society that's sure. Hard to maintain generosity of spirit when you are watching your income shrink. It's fertile ground for some populist to come and shout about how someone stole the jobs, sold out the country, made life difficult for honest hardworking people like you... Populists take advantage that economy is complex, to present simplistic solutions that won't work and rely on screwing people who can't fight back - Mexicans etc. The solutions do work long enough for them to steal a shitload before they get kicked out though.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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14-08-2017, 02:52 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(14-08-2017 02:40 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(14-08-2017 02:30 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  far more dangerous was fear of left, lost war and failing economy.

Hmm. Yeah. Failing economy is the thing that brings out the dickheads in society that's sure. Hard to maintain generosity of spirit when you are watching your income shrink. It's fertile ground for some populist to come and shout about how someone stole the jobs, sold out the country, made life difficult for honest hardworking people like you... Populists take advantage that economy is complex, to present simplistic solutions that won't work and rely on screwing people who can't fight back - Mexicans etc. The solutions do work long enough for them to steal a shitload before they get kicked out though.

Thankfully not every economic disaster results in birth of another Reich.

Also as bad as it sounds Nazis had some good ideas about welfare and social mobility. One of Hitler dreams was Reich of equal chances without privileges (nobility) coming into play. That's however only tiniest shred of goodness in rest of his horrific dreams. Still that helps to explain his popularity and tacit support for Reich. Info on how Nazi rule was good (in the short term and by criminal means) for (some of) Germans can be found in Gotz Aly "Hitler's Beneficiaries".

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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14-08-2017, 03:06 PM (This post was last modified: 14-08-2017 03:16 PM by Deesse23.)
RE: Alt right protests
I think there is another factor, and it might be more relevant than we would think at first glance:

The inability/unwillingness for civilized political discourse on the streets of Weimar. In other words: Street fighting was common. The parties had specialized troops to literally fight the opposing side, make raids, harm and kill people. The SA was created just for this purpose: fight and win street fights. Even political assasinations were pretty common (Luxemburg, Liebknecht, Erzberger, Rathenau).

It was common to have armed (paramilitary) troops out on the street, fighting for your party.

When i look at current events in the USA this could be an indicator that something may run wrong the same way it did in Weimar. The gun laws certianly contribute to this. We are at a stage where there are no organized troops (yet) and people claiming to go to demos armed just to defend themselves, but what is going to happen, once some shitheads (and there will be some, dont fool yourselves) are going to decide to use the weapons they have brought. Will we witness some escalation? Will we be witnessing street fighting and shooting on a regular basis? ...to think this is impossible would be hilariously naive imho.

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14-08-2017, 03:11 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(14-08-2017 03:06 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  I think there is another factor, and it might be more relevant than we would think at first glance:

The inability/unwillingness fo rcivilized political discourse on the streets of Weimar. In other words: Street fighting was common. The parties had specialized troops to literally fight the opposing side, make raids harm and kill people. The SA was created just for this purpose: fight and win street fights. Even politicla assasinations were pretty common (Luxemburg, Libknecht, Erzberger, Rathenau).

It was common to have armed (paramilitary troops out on the street, fighting for your party.

When i look at current events in the USA this could be an indicator that something may run wrong the same way it did in Weimar. The gun laws certianly contribute to this. We are at a stage where there are no organized troops (yet) and people claiming to go to demos armed just to defend themselves, but what is going to happen, once some shitheads (and there will be some, if dont fool yourselves) are going to decide to use the weapons they have brought. Will we witness some escalation? Will we be witnessing street fighting and shooting on a regular basis? ...to think this is impossible would be hilariously naive imho.

Having heard many first hand accounts from that time, it is what I fear most also. Bipartisanship has never been so important before. It is crucial now.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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14-08-2017, 03:16 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(14-08-2017 03:06 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  I think there is another factor, and it might be more relevant than we would think at first glance:

The inability/unwillingness fo rcivilized political discourse on the streets of Weimar. In other words: Street fighting was common. The parties had specialized troops to literally fight the opposing side, make raids harm and kill people. The SA was created just for this purpose: fight and win street fights. Even politicla assasinations were pretty common (Luxemburg, Libknecht, Erzberger, Rathenau).

It was common to have armed (paramilitary troops out on the street, fighting for your party.

When i look at current events in the USA this could be an indicator that something may run wrong the same way it did in Weimar. The gun laws certianly contribute to this. We are at a stage where there are no organized troops (yet) and people claiming to go to demos armed just to defend themselves, but what is going to happen, once some shitheads (and there will be some, if dont fool yourselves) are going to decide to use the weapons they have brought. Will we witness some escalation? Will we be witnessing street fighting and shooting on a regular basis? ...to think this is impossible would be hilariously naive imho.

Given the brutalization that WWI brought lack of civilized discourse and prepondence for violence as problem solver weren't exactly surprising, especially when coupled with real threat that communists possesed. No one wanted rehash of SU and fear is great motivator of violence while not being I think conductive to enlightened dispute. Add national humiliation to the mix and you have recipe for disaster.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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14-08-2017, 03:38 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(14-08-2017 03:16 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(14-08-2017 03:06 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  I think there is another factor, and it might be more relevant than we would think at first glance:

The inability/unwillingness fo rcivilized political discourse on the streets of Weimar. In other words: Street fighting was common. The parties had specialized troops to literally fight the opposing side, make raids harm and kill people. The SA was created just for this purpose: fight and win street fights. Even politicla assasinations were pretty common (Luxemburg, Libknecht, Erzberger, Rathenau).

It was common to have armed (paramilitary troops out on the street, fighting for your party.

When i look at current events in the USA this could be an indicator that something may run wrong the same way it did in Weimar. The gun laws certianly contribute to this. We are at a stage where there are no organized troops (yet) and people claiming to go to demos armed just to defend themselves, but what is going to happen, once some shitheads (and there will be some, if dont fool yourselves) are going to decide to use the weapons they have brought. Will we witness some escalation? Will we be witnessing street fighting and shooting on a regular basis? ...to think this is impossible would be hilariously naive imho.

Given the brutalization that WWI brought lack of civilized discourse and prepondence for violence as problem solver weren't exactly surprising, especially when coupled with real threat that communists possesed. No one wanted rehash of SU and fear is great motivator of violence while not being I think conductive to enlightened dispute. Add national humiliation to the mix and you have recipe for disaster.

Can we agree that the american society maybe already has a ballpark of brutalisation that is comparable to back then and there? Replace commies with terrorists and you have your threat (i think its not relevant if a threat is real, a perception of threat is enough for a society to sport similar results). There is also a great deal of perceived national humiliation, isnt it (China, Mexicans, foreigners in general, immigration laws)? Trump is cashing in on it since his presidential campaign.

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