Alt right protests
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15-08-2017, 08:05 AM
RE: Alt right protests
Seth Meyers perfectly sums up how I feel:




"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu."

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15-08-2017, 08:10 AM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 07:36 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 07:27 AM)Dom Wrote:  Growing up in post war Germany I heard many first hand accounts of the rise of Hitler and what followed. This is purely anecdotal, from first hand observers who were very reluctant to talk about it. Many people from that time carried the fear of voicing opinions to their graves, long, long after all this was history.

In the country side of Bavaria (which was largely rural) ignorance ruled. People learned the 3 Rs in school with more or less success. School let out for all the different harvest times because everyone, even young kids, worked the fields then. News travelled by mouth, things that happened outside the village surfaced as distorted stories. Times were hard - my grandpa lost his butcher business because no one could afford to buy the product. People were starving and generally wanted the Kaiser back.

Meanwhile in Munich, Nazi gangs roamed the streets at night, beating people up. People installed mirrors by their windows so they could see what was happening in the streets without being seen in the window... You were either a Nazi or you lived in fear.

I never heard of any other groups roaming the streets. Could be because the Nazi thing turned into such a horrendous thing that stories about others didn't survive the times.

I heard dozens of individual accounts of these times from different perspectives - from Nazi followers to people who hid Jews. (Both existed in my family). I came away with a lot of fears regarding politics and speaking out. Trust no one, it's a matter of life or death. I was young and grew out of it - they never did.

Wow. I had no idea that what your background was. You're in North America now, right?

Yep, came here in the early 70s.

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15-08-2017, 08:11 AM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 08:05 AM)ShadowProject Wrote:  Seth Meyers perfectly sums up how I feel:




I liked the piece but do not share Meyer's optimism about American voters making the right choice. Drinking Beverage

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15-08-2017, 08:38 AM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 07:27 AM)Dom Wrote:  I never heard of any other groups roaming the streets. Could be because the Nazi thing turned into such a horrendous thing that stories about others didn't survive the times.

I think that may have been different in Berlin and the large industrial hubs where the communists were strong. Mostly Berlin though.

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15-08-2017, 09:02 AM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 08:38 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 07:27 AM)Dom Wrote:  I never heard of any other groups roaming the streets. Could be because the Nazi thing turned into such a horrendous thing that stories about others didn't survive the times.

I think that may have been different in Berlin and the large industrial hubs where the communists were strong. Mostly Berlin though.

Yes, there was a vast difference between the south and the north. (seems that way in most countries/states). The south was rural and the north industrial. The north was better educated and wealthier. The south was uneducated and dirt poor. (With the exception of some urban centers).

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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15-08-2017, 09:23 AM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 09:02 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:38 AM)abaris Wrote:  I think that may have been different in Berlin and the large industrial hubs where the communists were strong. Mostly Berlin though.

Yes, there was a vast difference between the south and the north. (seems that way in most countries/states). The south was rural and the north industrial. The north was better educated and wealthier. The south was uneducated and dirt poor. (With the exception of some urban centers).

I warn of always making it a class issue, or even just one nation's issue.

Keep in mind the 19 hijackers were not dirt poor rural Muslims. Most of them came from middle class or well off families. Shit, Bin Laden himself came from a wealthy family.

The sickos who pumped the alt right with such venom, were well of pundits like Hannity and Limbaugh and Coulter. I think we should not play into the class issue here. Hate is not a patent of the poor solely owned by the poor. It can only be said on average, but not as an an absolute.

Poverty also does not mean lack of liberalism. My Redneck friend in Oklahoma was born into a religious family, raised by a religious family, but he managed to educate himself and ditch his former religion. John is now an atheist, has read Dawkins and Hitchens and values LGBT rights and gay marriage.

But sure, on average the less educated a society is and the more poverty there is the less stable a society is. But even in more poor countries you still have wealth that controls the narrative and that propaganda doesn't spread without some sort of knowing how to pander to the masses.

And even in looking at that footage of the protest, most of those sickos carrying the torches didn't look like beer gut bearded trailer park dwellers with no education. And yea, there were others there in KKK garb and skinhead looks too, but many of them looked like frat boys.

Point being if you want to sell hate you can sell that hate to all classes, not just the poor or the rural.

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15-08-2017, 09:26 AM
RE: Alt right protests
I would argue that our current climate is still due to old money in politics still left over from Nixion's Southern Strategy and the GOP has been bitter ever since he got caught. 45 is on his way to being Nixon 2.0

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15-08-2017, 09:57 AM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 08:38 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 07:27 AM)Dom Wrote:  I never heard of any other groups roaming the streets. Could be because the Nazi thing turned into such a horrendous thing that stories about others didn't survive the times.

I think that may have been different in Berlin and the large industrial hubs where the communists were strong. Mostly Berlin though.

While the Nazis had the SA to battle in the streets, the communists were pushing back and holding their lines. It wasnt decided fort a long time which extremist party would prevail. As Abaris has shown, most of the time the communists had far more support than the nazis.

It should not be underestimated how many communist voters and communist politicians were in pre WWII germany. Although many got killed in KZs, a lot of em managed to get away, mainly to the USSR and returned with the red army in 1944-45 (a lot of em, ironically, got killed during Stalins purges). If you read the CVs of many prominent (eastern) german politicians of the left, you will often see their parents were communist sympathizers already. Later west german Politicians like Herbert Wehner (iirc) were in Moscow too. The famous location where the higher ranking politicians were located was the famed "Hotel Lux" in Moscow. The list of inhabitants reads like an international "who is who" of communists and socialists.

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15-08-2017, 10:38 AM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 09:57 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:38 AM)abaris Wrote:  I think that may have been different in Berlin and the large industrial hubs where the communists were strong. Mostly Berlin though.

While the Nazis had the SA to battle in the streets, the communists were pushing back and holding their lines. It wasnt decided fort a long time which extremist party would prevail. As Abaris has shown, most of the time the communists had far more support than the nazis.

It should not be underestimated how many communist voters and communist politicians were in pre WWII germany. Although many got killed in KZs, a lot of em managed to get away, mainly to the USSR and returned with the red army in 1944-45 (a lot of em, ironically, got killed during Stalins purges). If you read the CVs of many prominent (eastern) german politicians of the left, you will often see their parents were communist sympathizers already. Later west german Politicians like Herbert Wehner (iirc) were in Moscow too. The famous location where the higher ranking politicians were located was the famed "Hotel Lux" in Moscow. The list of inhabitants reads like an international "who is who" of communists and socialists.

Not sure how that battle between the Nazis and Russia back then has anything to do with western society today other than there being a far right movement in parts of Europe and America.

But if you are implying that there is a far left on par with say someone like Che in the democratic party or that they even constitute a majority, would be absurd.

Feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong. But if this is some argument that both parties are the same today, that is simply absurd and false.

What we are seeing today is a rise of the far right but that was 36 years in the making started by the GOP and Reagan's attaching himself to the religious right and the 1%.

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15-08-2017, 10:48 AM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 10:38 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 09:57 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  While the Nazis had the SA to battle in the streets, the communists were pushing back and holding their lines. It wasnt decided fort a long time which extremist party would prevail. As Abaris has shown, most of the time the communists had far more support than the nazis.

It should not be underestimated how many communist voters and communist politicians were in pre WWII germany. Although many got killed in KZs, a lot of em managed to get away, mainly to the USSR and returned with the red army in 1944-45 (a lot of em, ironically, got killed during Stalins purges). If you read the CVs of many prominent (eastern) german politicians of the left, you will often see their parents were communist sympathizers already. Later west german Politicians like Herbert Wehner (iirc) were in Moscow too. The famous location where the higher ranking politicians were located was the famed "Hotel Lux" in Moscow. The list of inhabitants reads like an international "who is who" of communists and socialists.

Not sure how that battle between the Nazis and Russia back then has anything to do with western society today other than there being a far right movement in parts of Europe and America.

But if you are implying that there is a far left on par with say someone like Che in the democratic party or that they even constitute a majority, would be absurd.

Feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong. But if this is some argument that both parties are the same today, that is simply absurd and false.

What we are seeing today is a rise of the far right but that was 36 years in the making started by the GOP and Reagan's attaching himself to the religious right and the 1%.

We ended up on this line of thought because of the armed thugs in Charlottesville, and the similarly armed Nazi thugs in pre-Hitler Germany.

Or, at least I drew that parallel.

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