Alt right protests
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15-08-2017, 03:44 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 03:17 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 02:58 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  And compared Washington and Jefferson to Lee and Stonewall Jackson.

Uh.....

Short memory??


On this, Trump isn't wrong.

Or perhaps you never cracked a history book.


For those that want to villlify the promoters of black oppression - George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are indeed as worthy targets as Lee and Jackson.

Or have you forgiven them both for allowing slavery, and indeed OWNING SLAVES???

Huh

I think you need to reread them. Slavery was discussed in the continental congress but the north and south divide was already happening. They couldn't reach a consensus with the abolition of slavery still on the table, so it was dropped. Also in the time of Washington and Jefferson only male landowners could vote. States individually began changing their own voting restrictions (for Example Women in new Jersey could legally vote if they owned property until 1807). By the mid 1850s all white men regardless if they owned property or not could vote as long as they could mark a ballot (and often with help since many still didn't read).

Now, by the time of the first continental congress, one must recall that other countries had already abolished slavery or were in the process of doing so. We're talking at the time of the signing of the declaration of independence from England.

It took us another hundred years nearly to get that shit right.

The civil war was ONLY about the rights of certain states to own chattel. No revisionist history can change those fact because it's in the actual writings from Jefferson Davis and others in the Confederacy at that time.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-08-2017, 03:48 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 03:21 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 03:17 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Uh.....

Short memory??


On this, Trump isn't wrong.

Or perhaps you never cracked a history book.


For those that want to villlify the promoters of black oppression - George Washington and Thomas Jefferson are indeed as worthy targets as Lee and Jackson.

Or have you forgiven them both for allowing slavery, and indeed OWNING SLAVES???

Huh

Irrespective of them all keeping the black man down, Washington and Jefferson were traitors against King George III while Jackson and Lee were traitors against Washington and Jefferson. That's the relevant distinction.

Really???

There's one class of slave owner that's superior to other slave owners????

Interesting concept.

..

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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15-08-2017, 03:49 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 03:41 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 03:20 PM)abaris Wrote:  So one shouldn't applaud them at all? That what you're saying?

Yes, they all have been slaveholders, but openly praising two generals commiting treason against the Union and fighting for continued slavery, is quite a different puppy. By their own definition they weren't even American anymore but Confederates.

Uh...

I'll betcha didn't know that Ulysses S Grant was also a slave owner.....


Maybe we should burn him in effigy as well.....


...

Picking and choosing heroes is a fucksticks game.

And trying to whitewash history, doubly so.....

OMFG Really? There's no whitewash going on. I acknowledge that he did own slaves like many of that time. He still fought on the correct side of history in that case.

The south while propping up Robert E Lee (who was a brilliant general) they politely forget Jefferson Davis who still believed in HIS right to own other humans because of their skin color long after the civil war was over and encouraged people to continue fighting for their "states rights."


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-08-2017, 03:51 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 03:43 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 03:06 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Also while Trump continues to address his "Alt Right" base, the Daily Stormer which has lavished praise upon him, has announced they're sending Neo Nazis to harass the funeral of Heather Heyer (the victim of the domestic terrorist attack).

That is utterly vile.

It works for us.

Signed

The Westoboro Baptist Church
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15-08-2017, 03:52 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 03:48 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 03:21 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Irrespective of them all keeping the black man down, Washington and Jefferson were traitors against King George III while Jackson and Lee were traitors against Washington and Jefferson. That's the relevant distinction.

Really???

There's one class of slave owner that's superior to other slave owners????

Interesting concept.

..

Had the continental congress had the balls to the right the right thing from the start, I'm pretty confident that Washington and Jefferson would have given up their slaves.

Such an action would have altered the course of our history that much is sure.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-08-2017, 03:54 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 03:51 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 03:43 PM)morondog Wrote:  That is utterly vile.

It works for us.

Signed

The Westoboro Baptist Church

Dude...they have the right to say whatever they want. I have the right to tell them to shut the fuck up. That's the point of counter protest.


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And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-08-2017, 03:55 PM (This post was last modified: 15-08-2017 03:59 PM by onlinebiker.)
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 03:49 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 03:41 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Uh...

I'll betcha didn't know that Ulysses S Grant was also a slave owner.....


Maybe we should burn him in effigy as well.....


...

Picking and choosing heroes is a fucksticks game.

And trying to whitewash history, doubly so.....

OMFG Really? There's no whitewash going on. I acknowledge that he did own slaves like many of that time. He still fought on the correct side of history in that case.

The south while propping up Robert E Lee (who was a brilliant general) they politely forget Jefferson Davis who still believed in HIS right to own other humans because of their skin color long after the civil war was over and encouraged people to continue fighting for their "states rights."

Sure there's a whitewash going on....

People are picking and choosing one group of malignant, misogynistic, rascist men, and calling one group heroes and one villians.


You can justify all you like. I'm sure the slaves didn't see it that way.


Edit to add

Washington owned 317 slaves.
Jefferson owned 600.

The numbers speak for themselves.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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15-08-2017, 04:10 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 02:47 PM)Dom Wrote:  Wow, did anyone just see Trump's press conference on infrastructure?

He took it all back and reverted to his first speech about Charlottesville. He doesn't believe the alt right and Nazis etc. are responsible.

Meanwhile executives of Merck and Intel and Walmart and others are walking away from their consulting positions in the white house...

Looks like he hit the reset button and went back to his first comment about Charlottesville.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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15-08-2017, 04:15 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 03:55 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 03:49 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  OMFG Really? There's no whitewash going on. I acknowledge that he did own slaves like many of that time. He still fought on the correct side of history in that case.

The south while propping up Robert E Lee (who was a brilliant general) they politely forget Jefferson Davis who still believed in HIS right to own other humans because of their skin color long after the civil war was over and encouraged people to continue fighting for their "states rights."

Sure there's a whitewash going on....

People are picking and choosing one group of malignant, misogynistic, rascist men, and calling one group heroes and one villians.


You can justify all you like. I'm sure the slaves didn't see it that way.


Edit to add

Washington owned 317 slaves.
Jefferson owned 600.

The numbers speak for themselves.

George Washington died on December 14, 1799.

Jefferson died on July 4,1826.

Jefferson was (in my opinion) more of a chickenshit than Washington. He was the one who introduced into the continental congress the issue of slavery and spent the rest of his political career avoiding the topic publicly.

However he did predict that the issue would divide our country and likely lead to war.

But as far as his views, he believed the slaves could be freed and returned to Africa (he also believed the science of the time that said they were inferior something proven wrong before the civil war), but by the time of the civil war the numbers were too great to make that even a viable option.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-08-2017, 04:23 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 03:35 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 03:25 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  White isn't a heritage.

It wasn't about skin color. Heritage. The civil war memorials that the city wants to remove. They were there to protest the removal.

"In the park, in a pen ringed by steel barriers, the nationalists shouted anti-immigrant, anti-semitic and racist slogans and targeted white women counter-protesters, calling them "traitors" who "needed to get subjugated".

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40914748

The next half of the paragraph I quoted describes a violent response from some counter-protestors to this provocation. However, it was most definitely "about skin color" in the quoted protestors' minds, with a little bit of rape thrown in.

They certainly weren't trying to persuade by telling stories that would evoke an empathetic response. No reminiscences about their great-great-granddaddies who'd been inspired by Lee to go to West Point, or how they tear up whenever they hear Dixie, (or how special they felt when they drank from whites-only water fountains).
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