Alt right protests
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15-08-2017, 04:51 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 04:35 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  This post truly moved me with its eloquence.

Thanks though the real credit goes to Lee and Grant, their words are still powerful and haunting almost 150 years later. It's actually really neat to visit the National Park at Appomattox Courthouse and hear about the surrender in more detail. There's a gorgeous painting that really captures the moment quite well, if one goes by Grant's accounts later; Lee is immaculately dressed and groomed, while Grant is still covered in mud and dirt, without even spurs to properly ride a horse with. Grant would later admit he felt that he should have made an effort to clean up before the surrender.

Even though Lee would only live a handful of years after that day, the two wouldn't allow others to speak ill of their counterpart. Lee would swiftly shut down criticism of Grant (or the United States as a whole) in his presence. Grant would do likewise for Lee, having a great respect for him. When the politicians in Washington tried to put Lee on trial, in their desire for vengeance after Lincoln's assassination, Grant threatened to resign his commission because he had given Lee and his soldiers his word, and he felt that they were under his protection as he had been the one to set the terms of the surrender, which included that they not face reprisal for their roles in the war. He also felt that Lee was a symbol of the reconciliation that the nation would need, and indeed, that threat of the nation's beloved military hero to resign is what kept Lee from being put on trial for treason.

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15-08-2017, 04:53 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 04:25 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  No Russian news for 3 days now. I guess since the Manafort emails got leaked (where some Russians were told Trump will NEVER meet with them) the media is onto this new "all Trump supporters are white nationalists" bullshit. Nancy Pelosi is labeling all pro Trump groups applying for permits in California as "white nationalist racist groups" and attempting to have their permits denied or revoked.

So that's the new game plan huh? Trump and his voters are all racist?

I love it. This is a great plan and the democrats should follow the media and Pelosi's lead and push this idea that the 63 million that voted for Trump are racists. Non stop 24/7. Please please please do this.

No sorry doesn't work like that. Nobody is saying that, what we are SAYING is that your party and their voters are not denouncing the bad element in your ranks.

If you think it was an accident that 45 perpetuated the birtherism that started 5 yeas ago, or it was an accident he said, "They're rapists" or "ban all Muslims" or "fake media" if you think all that was just coincidental you completely miss what he is doing. He is pandering to that element you claim you are not part of and that kind of rhetoric set up that rally. There were clear images of intimidation and KKK members and Nazi supporters shouting fascist slogans.

I could give a shit less if you don't think of yourself as a bigot, but he and the GOP are not denouncing that element and he has been been using coded language of "they both do it" when what he is really has sold for 5 years is white nationalism.

You do not get to blame those who respond to his vile demagoguery as being the same as what he has been doing.

Instead of blaming those responding to him, maybe you should simply tell him and the GOP to fucking stop.

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15-08-2017, 04:53 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 04:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 04:23 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Tell me how it's "heritage" to go around chanting "blood and soil"? Tell me how it's "heritage" to surround and beat an African American man for being at the wrong place at the wrong time?

Oh, it's definitely heritage all right. Just not the heritage LDH wants to admit to.

Quite right...

America's history isn't pretty.

It's vile.

But, it is history.

Tearing down statues just allows revisionists the luxury of ignoring that vile history and present a version that's more to their liking...

.......................................

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15-08-2017, 04:55 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 04:49 PM)ELK12695 Wrote:  



I know these people are mad and shit, but... it's an inanmate fucking object.




Your friggin tax dollars is going to be spent fixing that statue. Way to beat the system and honor the dead! By smashing... a piece of... metal. ...yay?

Yep. And the local sheriff says he's going to arrest them too.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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15-08-2017, 05:05 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 04:53 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Tearing down statues just allows revisionists the luxury of ignoring that vile history ...

As Moms, Thumps & others have pointed out, it's like real estate: location, location, location, or, in this case, setting, setting, setting. Statues erected as memorials are intended as reminders, and if the setting is one of glorification rather than shame, the reminder is to glorify.

When what's being glorified not only no longer resonates with the culture but clashes with it, it's time to take down the reminder, like a grocery list of sweets that no longer apply to a diabetic. Move the memorial to a museum, where all cultures archive their histories so as to not crowd out acreage for the living, but leave the historic marker intact as a marker, since it still acts as a reminder, but a reminder of what NOT to revert to, and a reminder that reversion is all too easy.
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15-08-2017, 05:12 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 04:55 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 04:49 PM)ELK12695 Wrote:  



I know these people are mad and shit, but... it's an inanmate fucking object.




Your friggin tax dollars is going to be spent fixing that statue. Way to beat the system and honor the dead! By smashing... a piece of... metal. ...yay?

Yep. And the local sheriff says he's going to arrest them too.

Yea damned good thing those Iraqis got arrested for toppling the statue of a dictator.

What part of "slavery is wrong" do you not get? Those statues are coming down over time, legally or illegally. But to blame blacks and even whites who support blacks for understanding that the South was on the wrong side of the war, is sick.

It is far more understandable given the context of hating the glorification of slavery.

This is insane, this is like blaming blacks who got beaten up on the Edmund Pettus Bridge for trespassing. They rebuild that statue that would be the real waste of money. It belongs an a museum of what not to do to your fellow human.

I find it sick that you are more concerned with the rally that was promoting hate than the murder of a peaceful women counter protesting, or a fucking object glorifying a horrible era in our history.

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15-08-2017, 05:23 PM
RE: Alt right protests
I wonder how many of those alt-right goons cheered this at the time, or were even participants in it, or other similar events.
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15-08-2017, 05:24 PM (This post was last modified: 15-08-2017 06:09 PM by ELK12695.)
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 05:12 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Yea damned good thing those Iraqis got arrested for toppling the statue of a dictator.

What part of "slavery is wrong" do you not get? Those statues are coming down over time, legally or illegally. But to blame blacks and even whites who support blacks for understanding that the South was on the wrong side of the war, is sick.

It is far more understandable given the context of hating the glorification of slavery.

This is insane, this is like blaming blacks who got beaten up on the Edmund Pettus Bridge for trespassing. They rebuild that statue that would be the real waste of money. It belongs an a museum of what not to do to your fellow human.

I find it sick that you are more concerned with the rally that was promoting hate than the murder of a peaceful women counter protesting, or a fucking object glorifying a horrible era in our history.

That's not the point. They're breaking the law. It's *illiegal*. This is not the same as smoking pot in your house; it's vandalism.

There are *legal* ways of removing that statue. Protesting (without vandalism), writing letters, signing petitions, going on TV to speak your case, electing a new mayor that wants to remove it.

Here's a question. You dislike Rick Santorum right? He's fucking jackass and a nutcase. Let's say he said something unbelievably stupid. Do you take a roadtrip to his house and smash a brick through his front window? Destorying what you don't agree with? Anger is not an excuse.

Here's what gonna happen. Instead of *legally* removing the statue, pulling it down like a kid throwing a temper tantrum *justifies* the claims the confederate loving douchebags make about the other side. Ergo, They. Win. That statue will be up; hell, it might get even bigger, because the people who want it up will talk about how their "heritage" was besmirched, and they want compensation.

Obey the law, and if the law is bullshit, change it.

I'm no, I'm not defending Dark Edgelord Helmet. I don't give a shit about him or what he stands for.

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15-08-2017, 05:58 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 04:32 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 04:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Oh, it's definitely heritage all right. Just not the heritage LDH wants to admit to.

This fool refuses to acknowledge there were 4 groups of protesters. The regular non violent southerner that weren't carrying tiki torches and just wanted to protest the removal of the civil war memorials, the non violent counter protesters, the violent counter protesters and the white nationalist fuck heads. Trump condemned 2 of the 4 groups, the violent loons on the left, and the white nationalist fuck heads and people are losing their minds.

This from the dirty cop.

#sigh
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15-08-2017, 06:09 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 05:24 PM)ELK12695 Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 05:12 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Yea damned good thing those Iraqis got arrested for toppling the statue of a dictator.

What part of "slavery is wrong" do you not get? Those statues are coming down over time, legally or illegally. But to blame blacks and even whites who support blacks for understanding that the South was on the wrong side of the war, is sick.

It is far more understandable given the context of hating the glorification of slavery.

This is insane, this is like blaming blacks who got beaten up on the Edmund Pettus Bridge for trespassing. They rebuild that statue that would be the real waste of money. It belongs an a museum of what not to do to your fellow human.

I find it sick that you are more concerned with the rally that was promoting hate than the murder of a peaceful women counter protesting, or a fucking object glorifying a horrible era in our history.

That's not the point. They're breaking the law. It's *illiegal*. This is not the same as smoking pot in your house; it's vandalism.

There are *legal* ways of removing that statue. Protesting (without vandalism), writing letters, signing petitions, going on TV to speak your case, electing a new mayor that wants to remove it.

He's a question. You dislike Rick Santorum right? He's fucking jackass and a nutcase. Let's say he said something unbelievably stupid. Do you take a roadtrip to his house and smash a brick through his front window? Destorying what you don't agree with? Anger is not an excuse.

Here's what gonna happen. Instead of *legally* removing the statue, pulling it down like a kid throwing a temper tantrum *justifies* the claims the confederate loving douchebags make about the other side. Ergo, They. Win. That statue will be up; hell, it might get even bigger, because the people who want it up will talk about how their "heritage" was besmirched, and they want compensation.

Obey the law, and if the law is bullshit, change it.

I'm no, I'm not defending Dark Edgelord Helmet. I don't give a shit about him or what he stands for.

So exactly how long should blacks and the whites that support blacks have to wait before those monuments to cruelty to other human beings get moved to museums and taken out of the context of glorifying them as heros? If you fought to keep slavery you were not a hero.

This same bullshit argument about telling blacks or their supporters not to do this or not to do that, and keep it legal, was made during the 60s.

You do not get to equate the response to bigotry and hate as being the same as the bigotry and hate itself. Our nation has never healed from the issue of slavery and until you accept that it is still affecting us today because of having such horrible reminders that glorify a bad era of our history, until you accept that instead of coping out to "history" and 'heritage" and ignore the context of why those monuments were put up at the time, which were an act of glorification, until you understand that, you will keep seeing those reactions.

It really is the same as an abuser blaming their victim.

NOBODY is saying "hate all whites" when they do things like that. They are simply saying they are tired of the reminders in the context of glorification..

No Jew is going to object to a Nazi symbol in the context of a Holocaust museum. Just like nobody who collected artifacts for the Black History Museum that included items from the slave trade, because in that context it is a reminder of what they overcame and a reminder to all what not to do you your fellow human.

But no sane Jew would want statues of Goebbles or Hitler in public parks in Germany just because that asshole was part of German history. Now tell my why the fuck that is so hard to understand?

I am white and I am tired of those icons in the context of glorification. As I said, they need to be moved to museums in the context of what not to do to your fellow humans. History should be taught, but it should not be glossed over in the context of public monuments that have the intent of glorifying a horrible past.

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