Alt right protests
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15-08-2017, 08:59 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 08:56 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:40 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  Don't kid yourself that the Civil War Memorials are about "heritage" and "honoring the dead".

Don't kid yourself that things are simple. Things can be about more than one thing. They can be "mostly" this and "also" this and "a pinch of this." It's not beyond the pale of imagination to suggest that in, say, 1912 you had a lot of southerners that had lost dads and granddads in the war that they literally knew and loved. Black subjugation was pretty solid in the south in the early 20th century, it's not like the feeling was totally: "Let's put up a statue of a confederate so our blacks don't forget their place and start demanding their rights!" African Americans in the south knew where they stood without statues to remind them. Sometimes things are primarily what they appear to be; sometimes a statue saying "honoring the dead of our town" really is for the purpose of "honoring the dead of our town."

This should be easy research to do. See which organizations funded their construction. Their motivations are usually easy to infer from their charters. And by easy research, I mean I ain't gonna bother.

#sigh
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15-08-2017, 09:02 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 08:56 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  Don't kid yourself that things are simple. Things can be about more than one thing. They can be "mostly" this and "also" this and "a pinch of this." It's not beyond the pale of imagination to suggest that in, say, 1912 you had a lot of southerners that had lost dads and granddads in the war that they literally knew and loved. Black subjugation was pretty solid in the south in the early 20th century, it's not like the feeling was totally: "Let's put up a statue of a confederate so our blacks don't forget their place and start demanding their rights!" African Americans in the south knew where they stood without statues to remind them. Sometimes things are primarily what they appear to be; sometimes a statue saying "honoring the dead of our town" really is for the purpose of "honoring the dead of our town."

Love or hate the Confederate cause, more than 200,000 Confederates died, whether it was to defend slavery, or out of loyalty to their states, or out of revenge for the razing the Union troops were causing, or even because they were conscripted and had no choice. They left behind families and friends, just like the Union soldiers who lost their lives for their own cause.

Nobody deserves to die on the battlefield, but above all, NO ONE deserves to be forgotten, regardless of what side they fought for.

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15-08-2017, 09:06 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 08:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  And by easy research, I mean I ain't gonna bother.

And by easy research, I mean I'm going to speculate wildly! No, you make a good point. I wonder if a bunch of them are with public funds at the town and city level. I don't know but suspect there wasn't much thought given to "shouldn't this be privately funded?" at small town hall meetings, a lot of these statues are in the traditional little downtown plazas of a thousand little southern towns. But maybe somebody could look into it...TSG?Smile

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15-08-2017, 09:09 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 09:06 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  And by easy research, I mean I ain't gonna bother.

And by easy research, I mean I'm going to speculate wildly! No, you make a good point. I wonder if a bunch of them are with public funds at the town and city level. I don't know but suspect there wasn't much thought given to "shouldn't this be privately funded?" at small town hall meetings, a lot of these statues are in the traditional little downtown plazas of a thousand little southern towns. But maybe somebody could look into it...TSG?Smile

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Maybe tomorrow. It's too late tonight.

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15-08-2017, 09:19 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 09:06 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  And by easy research, I mean I ain't gonna bother.

And by easy research, I mean I'm going to speculate wildly! No, you make a good point. I wonder if a bunch of them are with public funds at the town and city level. I don't know but suspect there wasn't much thought given to "shouldn't this be privately funded?" at small town hall meetings, a lot of these statues are in the traditional little downtown plazas of a thousand little southern towns. But maybe somebody could look into it...TSG?Smile

Yeah, let's get Mikey, he'll do it. Besides he can get school credit for it or something.

#sigh
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15-08-2017, 09:30 PM
RE: Alt right protests
Police arrested 22 year old Takiya Thompson, the woman who climbed the ladder and place the rope on the statue so the crowd could pull it down. She will be charged with various misdemeanors and felonies, from vandalism to inciting a riot.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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15-08-2017, 09:38 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 08:56 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:40 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  Don't kid yourself that the Civil War Memorials are about "heritage" and "honoring the dead".

Don't kid yourself that things are simple. Things can be about more than one thing. They can be "mostly" this and "also" this and "a pinch of this." It's not beyond the pale of imagination to suggest that in, say, 1912 you had a lot of southerners that had lost dads and granddads in the war that they literally knew and loved. Black subjugation was pretty solid in the south in the early 20th century, it's not like the feeling was totally: "Let's put up a statue of a confederate so our blacks don't forget their place and start demanding their rights!" African Americans in the south knew where they stood without statues to remind them. Sometimes things are primarily what they appear to be; sometimes a statue saying "honoring the dead of our town" really is for the purpose of "honoring the dead of our town."

To be fair, monuments that simply honor the dead, I really don't have a problem with, although some go a step beyond and honor their cause as well. One in SC declares they were "in the right".

But any publicly funded monuments that celebrate the Confederacy, I don't see how they have any place in 2017, and that includes ones that celebrate those like Lee because of their Confederate accomplishments. And I find the notion we need to keep these up to "remind us" is quite silly; do we need to keep nooses in trees to remind us of lynchings and burning crosses up to remind us of the KKK?
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15-08-2017, 09:42 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 09:38 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  To be fair, monuments that simply honor the dead, I really don't have a problem with, although some go a step beyond and honor their cause as well. One in SC declares they were "in the right".

That sounds reasonable the tricky part would be distinguishing the purposes in a single monument. They celebrate both things- the sacrifice of the dead and white supremacy. Let's chop them all off at the waist!

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15-08-2017, 09:44 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(15-08-2017 09:42 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 09:38 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  To be fair, monuments that simply honor the dead, I really don't have a problem with, although some go a step beyond and honor their cause as well. One in SC declares they were "in the right".

That sounds reasonable the tricky part would be distinguishing the purposes in a single monument. They celebrate both things- the sacrifice of the dead and white supremacy. Let's chop them all off at the waist!

Keep the monument, remove the "bad" part? Or tape over it? Or put an asterick by it?

* These views do not represent the views of the United States governemnt.
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15-08-2017, 10:14 PM
RE: Alt right protests
I suppose if you're not going to take down the monument, then putting some disclaimer stickers on it would be pretty funny.

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