Alt right protests
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16-08-2017, 01:44 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(16-08-2017 01:26 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(16-08-2017 12:56 PM)adey67 Wrote:  My edit was too late.
There's no way we would have risked war with America again, we may have been arrogant but we were not dumb. As for 1812 you still kicked our ass in naval combat several times. You were way to strong it was a no go from the start and we knew that.

I don't know if that's true, again speaking mainly of the first year or so. Blockade wasn't in serious effect yet. We'll never know how close decision making on it was, there's probably some seriously deep historical studies but ultimately this was all taking place in the heads of the British decision makers, and we'll never get their true point of view, even in their own heads they probably wavered back and forth on a daily basis. On factor to support your side: I do know the north send a pretty firmly worded message to England early in the war to the effect of "You give them outright help we will consider it an act of war and respond accordingly." The north knew there was some under-the-table assistance building ironclads and such, but to come out and ally with the south was unacceptable. Technically the northern position was "This is an internal affair, nothing to see here, carry on!"

Didn't know about the ironclads, that's fucking shameful on our part Imo.
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16-08-2017, 01:49 PM
RE: Alt right protests
Has anyone noticed that while LDH isn't here we can have good conversation debate and even cordial disagreement without the whole thing degenerating into a nasty aggressive racially divisive fuckfest ? Just an observation.
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16-08-2017, 01:53 PM (This post was last modified: 16-08-2017 01:56 PM by abaris.)
RE: Alt right protests
(16-08-2017 01:44 PM)adey67 Wrote:  Didn't know about the ironclads, that's fucking shameful on our part Imo.

There weren't that many. And every European nation had them within a year after they first turned up in the American civil war. Already in 1866 we won against the Italians at Lissa. Both sides already used Ironclads. In fact, the first major sea battle of Ironclads.

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16-08-2017, 01:58 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(16-08-2017 01:53 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(16-08-2017 01:44 PM)adey67 Wrote:  Didn't know about the ironclads, that's fucking shameful on our part Imo.

There weren't that many. And every European nation had them within a year after they first turned up in the American civil war. Already in 1866 we won against the Italians at Lissa. Both sides already used Ironclads.

I knew HMS Warrior built in 1860 was sort of an iron clad but without turrets but our first ironclad with turrets was HMS Devastation in 1870 or so I thought.
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16-08-2017, 02:02 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(16-08-2017 01:58 PM)adey67 Wrote:  
(16-08-2017 01:53 PM)abaris Wrote:  There weren't that many. And every European nation had them within a year after they first turned up in the American civil war. Already in 1866 we won against the Italians at Lissa. Both sides already used Ironclads.

I knew HMS Warrior built in 1860 was sort of an iron clad but without turrets but our first ironclad with turrets was HMS Devastation in 1870 or so I thought.

The one for sure was the Alabama (not named that when being built in ENgland!) It did some serious damage and I think after the war it was a real sore spot between US and GB you had these "Alabama Claims" cases where US wanted reparations for the damage caused. I think it was negotiated away. There may have been a few other ironclads ordered and maybe partially built that were cancelled.
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16-08-2017, 02:04 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(16-08-2017 01:58 PM)adey67 Wrote:  I knew HMS Warrior built in 1860 was sort of an iron clad but without turrets but our first ironclad with turrets was HMS Devastation in 1870 or so I thought.

The turrets weren't the important part, since they lacked in firepower compared to traditional vessels. The armaments were the groundbreaking discovery, which made every fleet in the world turn to using Ironclads. And that happened within a year.

The Monitor or the Virginia wouldn't have stood a chance against traditional, but Ironclad vessels firing broadsides or ramming them.

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16-08-2017, 02:12 PM
RE: Alt right protests
You learn something every day, thanks guys. Smile
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16-08-2017, 02:58 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(16-08-2017 01:11 PM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  
(16-08-2017 12:44 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  You do not get the point.


Here's the difference between Washington and Jefferson vs Lee and Jackson -----

Washington and Jefferson won their war. Jefferson and Lee didn't.

Thus born are heroes and villains - all cut from the same cloth.

Yes....I do get your simplistic point, which is "they all owned slaves, so they must be the exact same".

Except the motivations for said wars and reasons for the praise for all 4 are different; that's the point you're apparently ignoring.

You're splitting hairs..

In both cases the upstarts didn't like the government that was telling them what to do - so they said " fuck you, we' re outta here"......


Basically the same reason.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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16-08-2017, 03:05 PM
RE: Alt right protests
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"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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16-08-2017, 03:28 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(16-08-2017 01:13 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-08-2017 12:30 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I don't believe anyone in my family owned slaves but my third great uncle was William Tecumseh Sherman, one of the top generals from the Civil War, ...

Good God, woman. Way to understate your lineage.

The March to the Sea was devastating to Georgia and the Confederacy. Sherman himself estimated that the campaign had inflicted $100 million (about $1.4 billion in 2010 dollars) in destruction, about one fifth of which "inured to our advantage" while the "remainder is simple waste and destruction." The Army wrecked 300 miles (480 km) of railroad and numerous bridges and miles of telegraph lines. It seized 5,000 horses, 4,000 mules, and 13,000 head of cattle. It confiscated 9.5 million pounds of corn and 10.5 million pounds of fodder, and destroyed uncounted cotton gins and mills. Military historians Herman Hattaway and Archer Jones cited the significant damage wrought to railroads and Southern logistics in the campaign and stated that "Sherman's raid succeeded in 'knocking the Confederate war effort to pieces'." David J. Eicher wrote that "Sherman had accomplished an amazing task. He had defied military principles by operating deep within enemy territory and without lines of supply or communication. He destroyed much of the South's potential and psychology to wage war."


And just to top it all off, fucker confiscated 400,000 acres for resettlement of the 18,000 darkies he just freed. Sherman fucked the shit of the South and then made them eat it. This is who the children of the Confederacy truly despise. (Now go and erase all evidence of you and your family on the Interwebz for God's sake.)

(16-08-2017 01:13 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Sherman fucked the shit of the South and then made them eat it. This is who the children of the Confederacy truly despise.

Tell me something I don't know Girly! LOL. My husband is, of all the things, from South Carolina and when I went back to meet his family (I'm a California girl) somehow it got out that I was Shermans great, great, grandniece and boy, did I get the cold shoulder from some of my husbands family. Some of his cousins live in Georga. They looked at me like I was the Bubonic plague come to pay them a visit. It was hysterical. My husband's father is from Pennsylvania so he thought it was pretty funny but some of hubby's cousins gave me looks that could kill.

Oddly enough, Sherman attended the funeral of one or two of the Confederate generals he'd faught against. After the war they became friends and reminisced about all the strategy and fun times they had trying to kill each other. Huh

Like a couple of quarterbacks discussing the big game.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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