Alt right protests
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17-08-2017, 11:37 AM
RE: Alt right protests
(17-08-2017 11:32 AM)abaris Wrote:  Their right to assemble is protected by the 1st amendment of the US constitution. Freedom of speech.

But even in Europe where it's forbidden to fly nazi symbols, their rights are protected by freedom of expression. They can and do assemble, as long as they're not crossing the lines of what constitutes hate speech or the usage of nazi symbolism.

You can let them protest and not support them as long as you are ready to counter protest them and actively support the counter protesters which Trump and a lot of Americans didn't do.

Freedom is servitude to justice and intellectual honesty.
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17-08-2017, 11:40 AM
RE: Alt right protests
(17-08-2017 11:37 AM)epronovost Wrote:  You can let them protest and not support them as long as you are ready to counter protest them and actively support the counter protesters which Trump and a lot of Americans didn't do.

Of course, but they have the right to do that, much as I dispise them. I wouldn't want the authorities to prevent them from excercising their rights. Same as I wouldn't want them to prevent me from excercising my rights to protest.

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17-08-2017, 11:46 AM
RE: Alt right protests
I wouldn't deprive anyone of their rights. If I found their speech offensive, I'd counter it with more speech.

That's freedom, baby.
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17-08-2017, 03:58 PM
RE: Alt right protests



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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-08-2017, 04:32 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(16-08-2017 09:33 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Not sure what you are saying here.
I thought it was pretty obvious but I have no problem elaborating. Basically, a whole bunch of intellectually lazy people have been, for years and from both sides, been yelling Nazi! Nazi! Nazi! at every poor motherfucker, they can find that they just happened to not like or disagree with. I've seen people on the left repeatedly call Dave Rubin, a homosexual Jewish man, a Nazi.
So what I was saying is it's nice to see people getting it right finally, it's just a shame that the guys had to wave actual Nazi flags about for it to happen, and slightly undercut by the fact that had there been no Nazi flags or any of that nonsense people still would have yelled Nazi! Nazi! because it's the only way some people know how to engage in political discourse anymore.

(16-08-2017 09:33 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  But quite frankly lots of people not even weeks into 45s run were making parallels to WW2 Germany, some even before he ran because of his 5 years of birther crap.
That's because it's a politically expedient, if intellectual lazy, way of delegitimizing and demonizing people you don't like. It's a decade's long practice, I remember people drawing parallels between Obama and Hitler, Bush and Hitler, Tony Blair and Hitler. At this point, either everyone is Hitler or nobody actually is because the standard is so vague and undefined which is why I don't take the hyperbolic and lazy shouting about Nazi! Nazi! seriously at all.



(16-08-2017 09:33 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  1. Vilifying oustiders.
2. Blaming everyone else.
3. Attacking rivals even within his party.
4. Selling hyper nationalism.
5. Selling himself as the only cure.
6. Attacking media.
7. Ignoring intel.

A.) The vast majority of these can be just as easily explained by the fact he's a rich kid who never had to face the consequences of his actions who has spent his entire life dealing almost exclusively with yes men who praise his every action.
B.) Some of them are so broad as to be useless. Define "hyper nationalism". I ask cause I've seen people that think properly enforcing immigration laws as they are on the books is "hyper nationalistic". Now I don't pay attention to everything the man says but I don't recall the man saying that "Americans are biologically/ genetically superior to every other people" which was the basis for the nationalism and expansionism of the Nazi empire.
C.) Some of these are so broad as to be meaningless. "Attacking the press" as an example of how he's a Nazi is just ludicrous, and for them to fall under the same category requires an umbrella so wide as to be nonsensical. There is a world of difference between a man who, rightly or wrongly, believes he's been unfairly treated by the media and exercises his right to free speech, between a man with a big mouth and a twitter account, and how the Nazi's attacked the free press by using the power of government to seize or shut down media, passing draconian laws preventing specific groups from being allowed into the media, arresting people and seizing newspapers, largely nationalizing the country's media into a government run propaganda machine.
So yes you can say that trumps bullshit attacks on the press are "Nazi like" .....if you ignore 99.9% of what the Nazi's ACTUALLY did. The POTUS should be above this petty shit, and I'll agree he is a petty shit, but he hasn't tried to seize media at gun point, hasn't engaged in mass arrests of his critics, hasn't tried to gain total domination over the media by force or legislation and I've not seen a single scrap of evidence showing that he has any intention of doing so. When the only way you can hold a comparison together is by ignoring 99% of the actual content it's a shit comparison, and it's intellectually lazy.

D.) Which brings me to my main point, that this is just blatant and rampant confirmation bias. Counting the hits and ignoring the misses. Does the fuckwit Trump advocate for the domestic social policies the Nazi's did? No, he does not. Does he advocate the domestic economic policies of Nazi Germany? No, he does not. Does he advocate for massively expanding America's borders into sovereign nations on the basis of a perceived biological superiority? No, he does not. Is he an advocate for a massive expansion of federal power, scope, and size in the way the Nazi's were and did do? No, he is not. Do they even agree on what the role of government ought to be in society? Nope, not even a bit.

Must be a Nazi amIright? *sigh* This shit is not helpful.

(16-08-2017 09:33 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Same fucking tactic WW2 Nazis employed.
Sure......if you ignore almost all social and economic policy, nearly all philosophical and ethnic beliefs, and you instead focus on talking points that are only convincing when they are so vague as to be meaningless and so broad they don't actually mean anything.

He's a shit president. He was always going to be a shit president, I don't think anyone reasonable would argue against that. But he's not a fucking Nazi and trying to argue he is just makes people look silly, uninformed, and dumbs down modern political speech.
It's also devoid of any historical education. For example, Lincoln was inaugurated in March of 1861 and by October of the same year, (less than a month longer than Trump has been in office so far) his administration had already started arresting newspaper editors who spoke against his policies and administrations and holding them in military prisons with out charge or due process.
When you think of Lincoln do you think of him as "Nazi like"? I sure as shit don't, yet his "attacks on the press" were MUCH more analogous of the Nazi's than Trumps were so why not?

Politics and history are not so black and white and simplistic that you can find a couple of vague similarities, ignore the mountain of differences, to justify the vilification and demonetization of people you don't agree with. It's lazy.

Trump is a dumb fuck who says and does dumb fuck things and I'll criticize him on those dumb fuck things but I don't need to pretend like his analogous to one of histories largest genocidal lunatics to make my case and make it well. There is a mountain of stuff you can verbally kick his ass over without having to be hyperbolic and inflammatory.

(16-08-2017 09:33 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  This weekend is a result of 45's REPEATED political demagoguery, vilification, scapegoating. The very red meat far right hate groups eat up.
See and this right here is one of many reasons why I don't take you seriously. The shit that happened this weekend has hundreds of interwoven causes, many of them going back decades or centuries, but the only ones you think matter to mention are the ones that support your personal narrative. I don't have time for this nonsense.
What happened in Virginia is not a new development, that kinda crap has been going on for decades it just hasn't been as widely or vocally reported.
Here is a Neo Nazi rally
from over a year ago where according to to the police the Nazi's were not the instigators of violence. Is the violence Trump's fault?
What about this one in 2005 is this Trump's fault too?

This shit has been going on for ever, sometimes worse sometimes better. Trump is a massive fuck up and he fucks up enough without me having to invent shit to blame on him. The people who are responsible for the violence in Virginia are the people in Virginia who engaged in violence. All of them, full stop.

Don't take this as a defense of Trump, It's not, he's a dumb cunt I want him out of office as soon as legally possible, I think he's bad for the country, I think his rhetoric has been damaging to the point it's blurred the lines most people can't tell the difference between an "alt-right" and a "conservative" view and treat them as one and the same and I'd much rather see him sent packing cause he's harmful and toxic to discourse in the country.

However, he's not the only toxic one that needs to go and they are not all on the right.

It is held that valour is the chiefest virtue and most dignifies the haver.
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17-08-2017, 04:38 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(17-08-2017 04:32 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(16-08-2017 09:33 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Not sure what you are saying here.
I thought it was pretty obvious but I have no problem elaborating. Basically, a whole bunch of intellectually lazy people have been, for years and from both sides, been yelling Nazi! Nazi! Nazi! at every poor motherfucker, they can find that they just happened to not like or disagree with. I've seen people on the left repeatedly call Dave Rubin, a homosexual Jewish man, a Nazi.
So what I was saying is it's nice to see people getting it right finally, it's just a shame that the guys had to wave actual Nazi flags about for it to happen, and slightly undercut by the fact that had there been no Nazi flags or any of that nonsense people still would have yelled Nazi! Nazi! because it's the only way some people know how to engage in political discourse anymore.

(16-08-2017 09:33 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  But quite frankly lots of people not even weeks into 45s run were making parallels to WW2 Germany, some even before he ran because of his 5 years of birther crap.
That's because it's a politically expedient, if intellectual lazy, way of delegitimizing and demonizing people you don't like. It's a decade's long practice, I remember people drawing parallels between Obama and Hitler, Bush and Hitler, Tony Blair and Hitler. At this point, either everyone is Hitler or nobody actually is because the standard is so vague and undefined which is why I don't take the hyperbolic and lazy shouting about Nazi! Nazi! seriously at all.



(16-08-2017 09:33 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  1. Vilifying oustiders.
2. Blaming everyone else.
3. Attacking rivals even within his party.
4. Selling hyper nationalism.
5. Selling himself as the only cure.
6. Attacking media.
7. Ignoring intel.

A.) The vast majority of these can be just as easily explained by the fact he's a rich kid who never had to face the consequences of his actions who has spent his entire life dealing almost exclusively with yes men who praise his every action.
B.) Some of them are so broad as to be useless. Define "hyper nationalism". I ask cause I've seen people that think properly enforcing immigration laws as they are on the books is "hyper nationalistic". Now I don't pay attention to everything the man says but I don't recall the man saying that "Americans are biologically/ genetically superior to every other people" which was the basis for the nationalism and expansionism of the Nazi empire.
C.) Some of these are so broad as to be meaningless. "Attacking the press" as an example of how he's a Nazi is just ludicrous, and for them to fall under the same category requires an umbrella so wide as to be nonsensical. There is a world of difference between a man who, rightly or wrongly, believes he's been unfairly treated by the media and exercises his right to free speech, between a man with a big mouth and a twitter account, and how the Nazi's attacked the free press by using the power of government to seize or shut down media, passing draconian laws preventing specific groups from being allowed into the media, arresting people and seizing newspapers, largely nationalizing the country's media into a government run propaganda machine.
So yes you can say that trumps bullshit attacks on the press are "Nazi like" .....if you ignore 99.9% of what the Nazi's ACTUALLY did. The POTUS should be above this petty shit, and I'll agree he is a petty shit, but he hasn't tried to seize media at gun point, hasn't engaged in mass arrests of his critics, hasn't tried to gain total domination over the media by force or legislation and I've not seen a single scrap of evidence showing that he has any intention of doing so. When the only way you can hold a comparison together is by ignoring 99% of the actual content it's a shit comparison, and it's intellectually lazy.

D.) Which brings me to my main point, that this is just blatant and rampant confirmation bias. Counting the hits and ignoring the misses. Does the fuckwit Trump advocate for the domestic social policies the Nazi's did? No, he does not. Does he advocate the domestic economic policies of Nazi Germany? No, he does not. Does he advocate for massively expanding America's borders into sovereign nations on the basis of a perceived biological superiority? No, he does not. Is he an advocate for a massive expansion of federal power, scope, and size in the way the Nazi's were and did do? No, he is not. Do they even agree on what the role of government ought to be in society? Nope, not even a bit.

Must be a Nazi amIright? *sigh* This shit is not helpful.

(16-08-2017 09:33 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  Same fucking tactic WW2 Nazis employed.
Sure......if you ignore almost all social and economic policy, nearly all philosophical and ethnic beliefs, and you instead focus on talking points that are only convincing when they are so vague as to be meaningless and so broad they don't actually mean anything.

He's a shit president. He was always going to be a shit president, I don't think anyone reasonable would argue against that. But he's not a fucking Nazi and trying to argue he is just makes people look silly, uninformed, and dumbs down modern political speech.
It's also devoid of any historical education. For example, Lincoln was inaugurated in March of 1861 and by October of the same year, (less than a month longer than Trump has been in office so far) his administration had already started arresting newspaper editors who spoke against his policies and administrations and holding them in military prisons with out charge or due process.
When you think of Lincoln do you think of him as "Nazi like"? I sure as shit don't, yet his "attacks on the press" were MUCH more analogous of the Nazi's than Trumps were so why not?

Politics and history are not so black and white and simplistic that you can find a couple of vague similarities, ignore the mountain of differences, to justify the vilification and demonetization of people you don't agree with. It's lazy.

Trump is a dumb fuck who says and does dumb fuck things and I'll criticize him on those dumb fuck things but I don't need to pretend like his analogous to one of histories largest genocidal lunatics to make my case and make it well. There is a mountain of stuff you can verbally kick his ass over without having to be hyperbolic and inflammatory.

(16-08-2017 09:33 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  This weekend is a result of 45's REPEATED political demagoguery, vilification, scapegoating. The very red meat far right hate groups eat up.
See and this right here is one of many reasons why I don't take you seriously. The shit that happened this weekend has hundreds of interwoven causes, many of them going back decades or centuries, but the only ones you think matter to mention are the ones that support your personal narrative. I don't have time for this nonsense.
What happened in Virginia is not a new development, that kinda crap has been going on for decades it just hasn't been as widely or vocally reported.
Here is a Neo Nazi rally
from over a year ago where according to to the police the Nazi's were not the instigators of violence. Is the violence Trump's fault?
What about this one in 2005 is this Trump's fault too?

This shit has been going on for ever, sometimes worse sometimes better. Trump is a massive fuck up and he fucks up enough without me having to invent shit to blame on him. The people who are responsible for the violence in Virginia are the people in Virginia who engaged in violence. All of them, full stop.

Don't take this as a defense of Trump, It's not, he's a dumb cunt I want him out of office as soon as legally possible, I think he's bad for the country, I think his rhetoric has been damaging to the point it's blurred the lines most people can't tell the difference between an "alt-right" and a "conservative" view and treat them as one and the same and I'd much rather see him sent packing cause he's harmful and toxic to discourse in the country.

However, he's not the only toxic one that needs to go and they are not all on the right.

It may not be a defense of Trump, but it sure reads like a defense of his take on the events in Charlottsville.

Which sucks big ass.
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17-08-2017, 04:43 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(17-08-2017 04:32 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  I thought it was pretty obvious but I have no problem elaborating. Basically, a whole bunch of intellectually lazy people have been, for years and from both sides, been yelling Nazi! Nazi! Nazi! at every poor motherfucker, they can find that they just happened to not like or disagree with.

Sometimes it's appropriate. I guess these guys wouldn't want to have it any other way.

[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]

[Image: nazi-flag-charlottesville-protest-rd-mem...x5_992.jpg]

What they are is up for debate. But flying the flag of the North Virginia army at least points to a peculiar understanding of democracy.

[Image: 170809_TECH_white-supremacist.jpg.CROP.p...large2.jpg]

Also a chant of Blood and Soil is coming directly from Goebbels book. They used to call it Blut und Boden back in the good ol' days and I guess someone chanting that has at least some nostalgic feelings.

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17-08-2017, 04:43 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(17-08-2017 04:38 PM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  
(17-08-2017 04:32 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  I thought it was pretty obvious but I have no problem elaborating. Basically, a whole bunch of intellectually lazy people have been, for years and from both sides, been yelling Nazi! Nazi! Nazi! at every poor motherfucker, they can find that they just happened to not like or disagree with. I've seen people on the left repeatedly call Dave Rubin, a homosexual Jewish man, a Nazi.
So what I was saying is it's nice to see people getting it right finally, it's just a shame that the guys had to wave actual Nazi flags about for it to happen, and slightly undercut by the fact that had there been no Nazi flags or any of that nonsense people still would have yelled Nazi! Nazi! because it's the only way some people know how to engage in political discourse anymore.

That's because it's a politically expedient, if intellectual lazy, way of delegitimizing and demonizing people you don't like. It's a decade's long practice, I remember people drawing parallels between Obama and Hitler, Bush and Hitler, Tony Blair and Hitler. At this point, either everyone is Hitler or nobody actually is because the standard is so vague and undefined which is why I don't take the hyperbolic and lazy shouting about Nazi! Nazi! seriously at all.




A.) The vast majority of these can be just as easily explained by the fact he's a rich kid who never had to face the consequences of his actions who has spent his entire life dealing almost exclusively with yes men who praise his every action.
B.) Some of them are so broad as to be useless. Define "hyper nationalism". I ask cause I've seen people that think properly enforcing immigration laws as they are on the books is "hyper nationalistic". Now I don't pay attention to everything the man says but I don't recall the man saying that "Americans are biologically/ genetically superior to every other people" which was the basis for the nationalism and expansionism of the Nazi empire.
C.) Some of these are so broad as to be meaningless. "Attacking the press" as an example of how he's a Nazi is just ludicrous, and for them to fall under the same category requires an umbrella so wide as to be nonsensical. There is a world of difference between a man who, rightly or wrongly, believes he's been unfairly treated by the media and exercises his right to free speech, between a man with a big mouth and a twitter account, and how the Nazi's attacked the free press by using the power of government to seize or shut down media, passing draconian laws preventing specific groups from being allowed into the media, arresting people and seizing newspapers, largely nationalizing the country's media into a government run propaganda machine.
So yes you can say that trumps bullshit attacks on the press are "Nazi like" .....if you ignore 99.9% of what the Nazi's ACTUALLY did. The POTUS should be above this petty shit, and I'll agree he is a petty shit, but he hasn't tried to seize media at gun point, hasn't engaged in mass arrests of his critics, hasn't tried to gain total domination over the media by force or legislation and I've not seen a single scrap of evidence showing that he has any intention of doing so. When the only way you can hold a comparison together is by ignoring 99% of the actual content it's a shit comparison, and it's intellectually lazy.

D.) Which brings me to my main point, that this is just blatant and rampant confirmation bias. Counting the hits and ignoring the misses. Does the fuckwit Trump advocate for the domestic social policies the Nazi's did? No, he does not. Does he advocate the domestic economic policies of Nazi Germany? No, he does not. Does he advocate for massively expanding America's borders into sovereign nations on the basis of a perceived biological superiority? No, he does not. Is he an advocate for a massive expansion of federal power, scope, and size in the way the Nazi's were and did do? No, he is not. Do they even agree on what the role of government ought to be in society? Nope, not even a bit.

Must be a Nazi amIright? *sigh* This shit is not helpful.

Sure......if you ignore almost all social and economic policy, nearly all philosophical and ethnic beliefs, and you instead focus on talking points that are only convincing when they are so vague as to be meaningless and so broad they don't actually mean anything.

He's a shit president. He was always going to be a shit president, I don't think anyone reasonable would argue against that. But he's not a fucking Nazi and trying to argue he is just makes people look silly, uninformed, and dumbs down modern political speech.
It's also devoid of any historical education. For example, Lincoln was inaugurated in March of 1861 and by October of the same year, (less than a month longer than Trump has been in office so far) his administration had already started arresting newspaper editors who spoke against his policies and administrations and holding them in military prisons with out charge or due process.
When you think of Lincoln do you think of him as "Nazi like"? I sure as shit don't, yet his "attacks on the press" were MUCH more analogous of the Nazi's than Trumps were so why not?

Politics and history are not so black and white and simplistic that you can find a couple of vague similarities, ignore the mountain of differences, to justify the vilification and demonetization of people you don't agree with. It's lazy.

Trump is a dumb fuck who says and does dumb fuck things and I'll criticize him on those dumb fuck things but I don't need to pretend like his analogous to one of histories largest genocidal lunatics to make my case and make it well. There is a mountain of stuff you can verbally kick his ass over without having to be hyperbolic and inflammatory.

See and this right here is one of many reasons why I don't take you seriously. The shit that happened this weekend has hundreds of interwoven causes, many of them going back decades or centuries, but the only ones you think matter to mention are the ones that support your personal narrative. I don't have time for this nonsense.
What happened in Virginia is not a new development, that kinda crap has been going on for decades it just hasn't been as widely or vocally reported.
Here is a Neo Nazi rally
from over a year ago where according to to the police the Nazi's were not the instigators of violence. Is the violence Trump's fault?
What about this one in 2005 is this Trump's fault too?

This shit has been going on for ever, sometimes worse sometimes better. Trump is a massive fuck up and he fucks up enough without me having to invent shit to blame on him. The people who are responsible for the violence in Virginia are the people in Virginia who engaged in violence. All of them, full stop.

Don't take this as a defense of Trump, It's not, he's a dumb cunt I want him out of office as soon as legally possible, I think he's bad for the country, I think his rhetoric has been damaging to the point it's blurred the lines most people can't tell the difference between an "alt-right" and a "conservative" view and treat them as one and the same and I'd much rather see him sent packing cause he's harmful and toxic to discourse in the country.

However, he's not the only toxic one that needs to go and they are not all on the right.

It may not be a defense of Trump, but it sure reads like a defense of his take on the events in Charlottsville.

Which sucks big ass.

Then read it again and you might notice I don't talk about his response to it at all cause it's not relevant to what I'm talking about at all which is being lazy and throwing "Nazi" around until it loses all meaning. Bloody hell I don't even mention Charlottsville until I point out OTHER Nazi rallies that have been going on for decades.

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17-08-2017, 04:46 PM (This post was last modified: 17-08-2017 04:51 PM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: Alt right protests
(17-08-2017 04:43 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(17-08-2017 04:32 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  I thought it was pretty obvious but I have no problem elaborating. Basically, a whole bunch of intellectually lazy people have been, for years and from both sides, been yelling Nazi! Nazi! Nazi! at every poor motherfucker, they can find that they just happened to not like or disagree with.

Sometimes it's appropriate. I guess these guys wouldn't want to have it any other way.

[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]

[Image: nazi-flag-charlottesville-protest-rd-mem...x5_992.jpg]

What they are is up for debate. But flying the flag of the North Virginia army at least points to a peculiar understanding of democracy.

[Image: 170809_TECH_white-supremacist.jpg.CROP.p...large2.jpg]

Also a chant of Blood and Soil is coming directly from Goebbels book. They used to call it Blut und Boden back in the good ol' days and I guess someone chanting that has at least some nostalgic feelings.

Ya, that was kinda my point. These guys ARE Nazi's which is why I said earlier it was nice to see people calling Nazi's... Nazi's instead of just "anyone that disagrees with me" a Nazi. The number of idiotic Obama with a Hitler moustache signs I had to sit through for 8 years was fuckin' tedious lol.

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17-08-2017, 05:09 PM
RE: Alt right protests
Donald Trump Labels Alt-Right Pointless: ‘I Just Right Click’

"WASHINGTON, DC—American President Donald Trump has released his fourth official statement on the highly controversial alt-right labelling the group “totally pointless” in a new interview with the National Enquirer.

“I just wanted to make sure I researched this really thoroughly,” the President explained for constantly changing his stance on the white supremacist linked-group. “Now I finally know exactly what I’m talking about, I can confirm that I, Donald J. Trump do not believe in alt-right, alt-left, whatever… I just right click instead.”

“It’s much easier and quicker so honestly it’s a no brainer. I really cannot understand why people are creating such a fuss over all this,” he added.

“For instance, let’s say when you’re using Microsoft Paint to create your art, which you love to do, and you just want to change the colour of the swastika you’re drawing…don’t alt-right! Just right click and change colour. It’s really that simple.”

“Or say you wanted to copy and paste a line of text straight out of somewhere like FOX News, Breitbart, KKK Today, wherever… don’t worry about alt-right! Just right click, hit copy, go to your twitter timeline, click paste, and you’re done. See? It’s as easy as being President of the United States.”"

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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