Alt right protests
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19-08-2017, 04:46 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 04:39 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(19-08-2017 04:23 PM)TSG Wrote:  Third Reich comes around and suddenly swastikas, Roman salutes, and the name "Adolf" are now synonymous with evil.

And it will stay that way, for at least a few centuries. Possibly as long as there is recorded history. There were always times that leave such strong marks on history that people will associate certain symbols with them.

Right now at least, these symbols aren't used innocently by anyone.

Something just really urks me about how easily the perception of a symbol or action or saying can be so completely altered because of the way some people used it. Look at a crucifix, for example. Seen as a symbol of hope and religious devotion for billions around the world. What is it? A miniature version of a barbaric execution device.

The Roman salute? Just an ordinary, quotidian salute in use for millennia before some fascists went nuts.

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19-08-2017, 04:51 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 04:46 PM)TSG Wrote:  Something just really urks me about how easily the perception of a symbol or action or saying can be so completely altered because of the way some people used it.

We're talking about a historical singularity here. A defining point in history, so to say. One political group got hold of a highly industrialised first world country and used every available resource and logistics of that economy to commit planned industrial genocide.

That's not "some" people using some symbols it at some time.

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19-08-2017, 04:52 PM
RE: Alt right protests
TSG...that is sooooooo true!

And by the way, for anyone who has never heard of the bloggess (my personal favorite blogger) I particularly love this one where she "found Jesus." In a thrift shop. (When we were kids a childhood friend of mine had this exact same picture in her living room along with many others.)

http://thebloggess.com/2017/06/28/jesus/

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19-08-2017, 04:52 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 04:51 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(19-08-2017 04:46 PM)TSG Wrote:  Something just really urks me about how easily the perception of a symbol or action or saying can be so completely altered because of the way some people used it.

We're talking about a historical singularity here. A defining point in history, so to say. One political group got hold of a highly industrialised first world country and used every available resource of that economy to commit planned industrial genocide.

That's not "some" people using some symbols it at some time.

Um... Yes it is. What was that, two decades in history? Compared to millennia beforehand?

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19-08-2017, 04:59 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 04:52 PM)TSG Wrote:  Um... Yes it is. What was that, two decades in history? Compared to millennia beforehand?

12 years.

That's not the point. I'm rather surprised this still needs explaining. Why this was a singularity.

What is Genghis Khan known for, by the way? How long did he live or rule to leave a lasting mark on history to forever being associated with violence and conquest?

Gengis Khan ruled for 21 years.

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19-08-2017, 05:08 PM
RE: Alt right protests



I have to drive past a Taco Bell on the way to work every day, and it sickens me that people would consider that food. It's led to the malnourishment of so many children. Tear it down!

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19-08-2017, 05:10 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 04:59 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(19-08-2017 04:52 PM)TSG Wrote:  Um... Yes it is. What was that, two decades in history? Compared to millennia beforehand?

12 years.

That's not the point. I'm rather surprised this still needs explaining. Why this was a singularity.

What is Genghis Khan known for, by the way? How long did he live or rule to leave a lasting mark on history to forever being associated with violence and conquest?

Gengis Khan ruled for 21 years.

I'm not saying the reign in terror of the Nazi regime wasn't a pivotal point in history -- I'd have to be insane to do that. I'm saying that I find it bemusing that the Nazis' actions should completely tear away the positive meaning of the swastika which had preceded them since ancient times.

Imagine today North Korea went out and changed their symbol to a check mark -- every prison camp for political dissidents grovels under the waving banner of the insidious check mark. Now say North Korea gains power akin to that of Nazi Germany, executing people while wearing check mark uniforms and saluting the way Americans do now. Say that regime lasts 12 years and carries a death toll equal to WWII. It is my contention that in that scenario it would be absurd for the check mark and the American-style salute to be treated as universal signs of evil, considering that neither had anything to do with North Korea before they adopted them on a whim.

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19-08-2017, 05:12 PM
RE: Alt right protests
Stands on private ground, has been purchased in Czechoslovakia, I believe, by a private citizen and is for sale at the moment.

Yes, I found that incident curious also. That's why I did a little research on how Lenin made it to the USA.

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19-08-2017, 05:15 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 05:08 PM)cactus Wrote:  


I have to drive past a Taco Bell on the way to work every day, and it sickens me that people would consider that food. It's led to the malnourishment of so many children. Tear it down!

I don't understand. Apparently the thing's been there on display for public sale in a vendor retail area since 1995. Why don't they just buy the damn thing and melt it down if they want?

#sigh
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19-08-2017, 05:15 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 04:52 PM)TSG Wrote:  
(19-08-2017 04:51 PM)abaris Wrote:  We're talking about a historical singularity here. A defining point in history, so to say. One political group got hold of a highly industrialised first world country and used every available resource of that economy to commit planned industrial genocide.

That's not "some" people using some symbols it at some time.

Um... Yes it is. What was that, two decades in history? Compared to millennia beforehand?

Millenia aren't exactly anything to write home about either, on human time scales. 200 years from now, maybe the nazis will be so remote in history that no one cares. After all, if one used a Jacobite warcry as their own now there'd not be much outcry from the English. Wars do eventually fade from memory. On the other hand the Irish are still pissed about Cromwell, so not all wars do fade.

ETA: And the usage of the swastika as a hate symbol is being very much kept alive. It's impossible Dodgy . It will remain a hate symbol for centuries.

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