Alt right protests
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19-08-2017, 05:39 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 05:29 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(19-08-2017 02:06 PM)Dom Wrote:  The concentration camps are preserved, and I hear that all school children are taken there to experience it. There are also bombed out buildings as reminders. And of course the museums.

I do think that tangible reminders of times gone by are worthy of preservation. But you don't need hundreds of them. That's just silly. And they should actually bear witness by having a plaque explaining the history and the reason they were erected.

The big difference is this: your preserved concentration camps are not preserved as shrines, but rather, as warnings. These Confederate statues aren't warnings to the future about what happens when men defend an evil institution. They are warnings to blacks what might happen if the "South should rise again."

They don't warn against the evil; they are instead panegyrics to it.

Yes, and that's exactly why they were put up to begin with. It's silent aggression and that was the purpose of those statues years ago.

When I was a kid, true story, when the mini series Roots came out, my father refused to watch it or have it on in our house (we only had one TV anyway). It was must-see TV before that shit had a name. Everyone watched it. Not in my father's house.

I remember clearly his reasons for not watching it....If he wanted to see that many blacks, he'd watch basketball. Looking back he didn't say blacks....he used a different word.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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19-08-2017, 05:42 PM
RE: Alt right protests
Quoted from this article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/45th_Infan...ed_States)

"The 45th Infantry Division was an infantry division of the United States Army, part of the Oklahoma Army National Guard, from 1920 to 1968."

"The division's original shoulder sleeve insignia, approved in August 1924, featured a swastika, a common Native American symbol, as a tribute to the Southwestern United States region which had a large population of Native Americans. However, with the rise of the Nazi Party in Germany, with its infamous swastika symbol, the 45th Division stopped using the insignia."

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19-08-2017, 05:43 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 05:39 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  When I was a kid, true story, when the mini series Roots came out, my father refused to watch it or have it on in our house (we only had one TV anyway).

Yes, I remember that one. Must have been '78, '79. In my parents house it was a must watch.

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19-08-2017, 05:45 PM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2017 06:08 PM by DLJ.)
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 12:01 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  ...
all I can think of is how the people who were behind what those folks are celebrating, were against memorializing their treasonous actions.

Of course these actions were only treasonous retrospectively... because they lost.

But lose they did.

Confused

(19-08-2017 01:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  ...
So why are there any statues to him around today (aside from in museums)? What purpose does it serve to celebrate his birthday as a holiday like two states still do? ...

So here's a thought...

What if, in 20 years from now, Virginia is instead celebrating Heather Heyer Day to mark the moment when the country united to finally stamp out the legitimising of race-hated.

I believe there are an increasing number of empty plinths upon which her statue can sit.

Consider

(19-08-2017 04:59 PM)abaris Wrote:  ...
What is Genghis Khan known for, by the way? How long did he live or rule to leave a lasting mark on history to forever being associated with violence and conquest?
...

And vodka.

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19-08-2017, 06:06 PM
RE: Alt right protests
The man is nuts...completely and totally nuts.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/t...li=BBnb7Kz

Quote:President Donald Trump described as "anti-police agitators" thousands of mostly peaceful counter-protesters who took to Boston on Saturday to oppose white supremacy and counter a right-wing "free speech" rally.

"Looks like many anti-police agitators in Boston. Police are looking tough and smart! Thank you," Trump wrote on Twitter.
Trump followed up shortly afterward by tweeting "sometimes you need protest in order to heal, & we will heal, & be stronger than ever before!"

"I want to applaud the many protesters in Boston who are speaking out against bigotry and hate. Our country will soon come together as one!"
Trump quickly faced criticism for his initial description of the counter-protesters. Boston Mayor Marty Walsh responded on Twitter that, "Today Boston stood for peace and love, not bigotry and hate. We should work to bring people together, not apart."

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19-08-2017, 06:08 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 05:45 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(19-08-2017 12:01 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  ...
all I can think of is how the people who were behind what those folks are celebrating, were against memorializing their treasonous actions.

Of course these actions were only treasonous retrospectively... because they lost.

But lose they did.

Confused
And it was treasonous at the time as well if you were loyal to the actual United States government. I understand that you're trying to say that history is written by the victors, and it is. Even had they won (which was never going to happen, given the industrial and manpower advantages of the Union/North/United States to basically win a war of attrition), they would still be remembered as traitors in the United States of America that was still around, while lauded as heroes in the Confederate States of America (without the need for the historical revisionism of the Southern Lost Cause mythos).

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19-08-2017, 06:09 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 05:45 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(19-08-2017 12:01 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  ...
all I can think of is how the people who were behind what those folks are celebrating, were against memorializing their treasonous actions.

Of course these actions were only treasonous retrospectively... because they lost.

But lose they did.

Confused

(19-08-2017 01:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  ...
So why are there any statues to him around today (aside from in museums)? What purpose does it serve to celebrate his birthday as a holiday like two states still do? ...

So here's a thought...

What if, in 20 years from now, Virginia is instead celebrating Heather Heyer Day to mark the moment when the country united to finally stamp out the legitimising of race-hated.

I believe there are an increasing number of empty plinths upon which her statue can sit.

Consider

That's sorta what New Orleans did, they took down a statue of either Jeff Davis or Robert E Lee, and replaced it with one featuring their first African American mayor.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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19-08-2017, 06:12 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 06:06 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
Quote:Trump followed up shortly afterward by tweeting "sometimes you need protest in order to heal, & we will heal, & be stronger than ever before!"

Actually...
Quote:“Our great country has been divided for decade, but it will come together again. Sometimes protest is needed in order to heel, and heel we will,” Trump tweeted a little after 4:00 p.m. ET on Saturday. He quickly deleted that version to post a revision. Unfortunately, that too used “heel” instead of “heal.”

Trump got the spelling right on the third try, which read, “Our great country has been divided for decades. Sometimes you need protest in order to heal, & we will heal, & be stronger than ever before! I want to applaud the many protestors in Boston who are speaking out against bigotry and hate. Our country will soon come together as one!”

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19-08-2017, 06:14 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 06:12 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(19-08-2017 06:06 PM)Anjele Wrote:  

Actually...
Quote:“Our great country has been divided for decade, but it will come together again. Sometimes protest is needed in order to heel, and heel we will,” Trump tweeted a little after 4:00 p.m. ET on Saturday. He quickly deleted that version to post a revision. Unfortunately, that too used “heel” instead of “heal.”

Trump got the spelling right on the third try, which read, “Our great country has been divided for decades. Sometimes you need protest in order to heal, & we will heal, & be stronger than ever before! I want to applaud the many protestors in Boston who are speaking out against bigotry and hate. Our country will soon come together as one!”

Facepalm

Maybe he was using mom's ducking phone.

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19-08-2017, 06:17 PM
RE: Alt right protests
(19-08-2017 04:46 PM)TSG Wrote:  
(19-08-2017 04:39 PM)abaris Wrote:  And it will stay that way, for at least a few centuries. Possibly as long as there is recorded history. There were always times that leave such strong marks on history that people will associate certain symbols with them.

Right now at least, these symbols aren't used innocently by anyone.

Something just really urks me about how easily the perception of a symbol or action or saying can be so completely altered because of the way some people used it. Look at a crucifix, for example. Seen as a symbol of hope and religious devotion for billions around the world. What is it? A miniature version of a barbaric execution device.

The Roman salute? Just an ordinary, quotidian salute in use for millennia before some fascists went nuts.

So what? Those who made a symbol famous, or infamous, add a chapter to that symbol's history. Got a problem with that, take it up with human psychology. The human brain is an associative device, and yours is no different. We remember deep scars, and the deeper the scar the longer the memory. And the murder of millions is a deep scar. People remember that sort of shit.

Before Hitler, fly a swastika all you want. After Hitler, do so understanding that you will summon associations with Hitler, because eleven million murdered and another 25 million or so killed in war.
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