Am I racist? Or just a statistician?
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16-09-2012, 04:34 AM
RE: Am I racist? Or just a statistician?
(16-09-2012 04:00 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(15-09-2012 06:43 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Tell me when you are able to control your genes, each and every external and internal influence on your brain, and consciously make a decision without any previously determined factors.
That's not what free will is about, buddy. Sleepy

It is in its entirety. These factors govern your decisions. The illusion is still there, but what you do is predetermined by past events, your genetic and chemical composition, and other external factors.

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16-09-2012, 06:22 AM
RE: Am I racist? Or just a statistician?
(16-09-2012 04:34 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 04:00 AM)Vosur Wrote:  That's not what free will is about, buddy. Sleepy

It is in its entirety. These factors govern your decisions. The illusion is still there, but what you do is predetermined by past events, your genetic and chemical composition, and other external factors.

That is a bit simplistic. Mind is an emergent property of the brain, and we don't yet have a handle on its complexity. It's not just the biochemistry, it's the connections, inter-connections, and information flow. It may be that non-determinism emerges from the complexity, or it may be that the complexity is so deep or vast that it is all but indistinguishable from free will.

The jury really is still out on this.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-09-2012, 08:11 AM
RE: Am I racist? Or just a statistician?
(16-09-2012 06:22 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 04:34 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  It is in its entirety. These factors govern your decisions. The illusion is still there, but what you do is predetermined by past events, your genetic and chemical composition, and other external factors.

That is a bit simplistic. Mind is an emergent property of the brain, and we don't yet have a handle on its complexity. It's not just the biochemistry, it's the connections, inter-connections, and information flow. It may be that non-determinism emerges from the complexity, or it may be that the complexity is so deep or vast that it is all but indistinguishable from free will.

The jury really is still out on this.

It is more logical to assume the absence of free will until evidence is provided that it exists.

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16-09-2012, 08:19 AM
RE: Am I racist? Or just a statistician?
(16-09-2012 08:11 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 06:22 AM)Chas Wrote:  That is a bit simplistic. Mind is an emergent property of the brain, and we don't yet have a handle on its complexity. It's not just the biochemistry, it's the connections, inter-connections, and information flow. It may be that non-determinism emerges from the complexity, or it may be that the complexity is so deep or vast that it is all but indistinguishable from free will.

The jury really is still out on this.

It is more logical to assume the absence of free will until evidence is provided that it exists.

Quite the contrary. Since the evidence of our consciousness is that we have free will, it is more logical to assume we do.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-09-2012, 02:01 PM (This post was last modified: 16-09-2012 02:08 PM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Am I racist? Or just a statistician?
(16-09-2012 08:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 08:11 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  It is more logical to assume the absence of free will until evidence is provided that it exists.

Quite the contrary. Since the evidence of our consciousness is that we have free will, it is more logical to assume we do.

Please, show me this evidence.

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16-09-2012, 02:50 PM
RE: Am I racist? Or just a statistician?
(16-09-2012 02:01 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 08:19 AM)Chas Wrote:  Quite the contrary. Since the evidence of our consciousness is that we have free will, it is more logical to assume we do.

Please, show me this evidence.

Hmmm, 'evidence' was not the best choice of words. I meant the fact of our own consciousness and the fact that we very strongly appear to have free will, make having free will the more logical default position.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-09-2012, 03:01 PM
RE: Am I racist? Or just a statistician?
(16-09-2012 02:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 02:01 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Please, show me this evidence.

Hmmm, 'evidence' was not the best choice of words. I meant the fact of our own consciousness and the fact that we very strongly appear to have free will, make having free will the more logical default position.

I don't think we appear to posses free will.

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16-09-2012, 03:04 PM
RE: Am I racist? Or just a statistician?
(16-09-2012 03:01 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 02:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  Hmmm, 'evidence' was not the best choice of words. I meant the fact of our own consciousness and the fact that we very strongly appear to have free will, make having free will the more logical default position.

I don't think we appear to posses free will.

Interesting. I don't see how anyone can think that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-09-2012, 03:10 PM
RE: Am I racist? Or just a statistician?
(16-09-2012 03:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 03:01 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I don't think we appear to posses free will.

Interesting. I don't see how anyone can think that.

I can. Undecided

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16-09-2012, 03:12 PM
RE: Am I racist? Or just a statistician?
(16-09-2012 03:10 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(16-09-2012 03:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  Interesting. I don't see how anyone can think that.

I can. Undecided

Hmmm, not a very convincing argument. Consider

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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