Am I still an atheist?
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12-05-2013, 09:07 AM
RE: Am I still an atheist?
If it was truly self aware, it would come to the point early on it's inception in which it wouldn't be able to figure out HOW awareness of reality can be attributed to it's own physical structure.

Imagine if you will this machine removing small areas of it's own brain like structure until it comes to a point where it has removed so much that it becomes unaware. How small would it have to be ? As small as an ants brain ? Even smaller ?

It would attempt to answer the age old question ? Why am I aware ? What is it about the structure of this organ (the brain) that creates awareness ? Can I be aware with only half a brain ? Many theists are proof this is possible, but seriously if I can, then what else can be removed until we come to a point where awareness is either on or off ?

What is it about a nerve relaying an electrical signal to a group of cells that creates awareness ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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12-05-2013, 09:42 AM
RE: Am I still an atheist?
(12-05-2013 08:46 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(12-05-2013 08:32 AM)Dom Wrote:  So would this thing make decisions for us? Micromanage our lives?

No thanks!

Does it count if this thing is a cel phone that we program our schedule into and need to remind us of what we're supposed to be doing right now?

Then I still make the decision to tell the thing when I want to be reminded.

But a "god" machine would be managing me without asking.

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12-05-2013, 10:55 AM
RE: Am I still an atheist?
(12-05-2013 09:07 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If it was truly self aware, it would come to the point early on it's inception in which it wouldn't be able to figure out HOW awareness of reality can be attributed to it's own physical structure.

Imagine if you will this machine removing small areas of it's own brain like structure until it comes to a point where it has removed so much that it becomes unaware. How small would it have to be ? As small as an ants brain ? Even smaller ?

It would attempt to answer the age old question ? Why am I aware ? What is it about the structure of this organ (the brain) that creates awareness ? Can I be aware with only half a brain ? Many theists are proof this is possible, but seriously if I can, then what else can be removed until we come to a point where awareness is either on or off ?

What is it about a nerve relaying an electrical signal to a group of cells that creates awareness ?

Are we as humans able to comprehend how the human brain works? Not as of right now, but perhaps one day very soon. In fact, if we knew how the human brain worked and could simulate one on today's level of computing it would be millions of times faster than humans. Even if it were no smarter than a human, it would be able to think in one year what a human would think in a million years. If you are an atheist, and attribute our minds only to the emergent properties of electro-chemical reactions, then you must come to the inevitable conclusion that computers will surpass human intelligence.
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12-05-2013, 04:04 PM
RE: Am I still an atheist?
I do not find that conclusion to be an accurate one.

It cannot be said that "computers will surpass human intelligence." this is an assumption, there is no guarantee that humans will ever create a computer with the same brainpower of humans, or the same capacity for intellect.
as for it "thinking more that a human 1 year than a human in a million". Assuming this computer does that the capacity for human-like intelligence, based on what can we assume it will think faster or more?

Also, what is the guarantee that this computer will not be destroyed, say by a religious zealot who leaned about it and considered it a sin against their god? Connect it to the internet, it'll probably catch all manner of malware too...

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12-05-2013, 05:02 PM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2013 05:20 PM by Funtheist.)
RE: Am I still an atheist?
(12-05-2013 04:04 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  I do not find that conclusion to be an accurate one.

It cannot be said that "computers will surpass human intelligence." this is an assumption, there is no guarantee that humans will ever create a computer with the same brainpower of humans, or the same capacity for intellect.
as for it "thinking more that a human 1 year than a human in a million". Assuming this computer does that the capacity for human-like intelligence, based on what can we assume it will think faster or more?

Also, what is the guarantee that this computer will not be destroyed, say by a religious zealot who leaned about it and considered it a sin against their god? Connect it to the internet, it'll probably catch all manner of malware too...

Actually, it is not humans that will build a computer that will surpass human intelligence, but computers themselves. All we need to do is build one that is just as good as a human (The Turing Test, for which there is a million dollar prize, and many, many computer scientists are working on).

Why are computers faster than humans? We rely on chemical reactions for our brains, and computers use the speed of light, which is millions of times faster. Humans typically have 200-1,000 neurons fire per second, while most average computer processors are running at least 1 GHz, which is a billion operations per second. As soon as we understand the human brain and can simulate its mechanisms on a computer, computers will be able design the next generation of computers. Computers designing their own hardware and software, recursively improving each iteration will cause an "Intelligence Explosion."

As far as someone blowing it up, there are far too many groups of people working on this for them to destroy all Artificial Intelligence programs around the world. Google has one of the best AIs, with the smartest people in the world working on it right now.
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12-05-2013, 05:13 PM
RE: Am I still an atheist?
Do you feel you need to persecute Dualitarians who believe we would only be creating a satan, and that the one true God not only already exists but would squash our planet like a bug if we threaten it?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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12-05-2013, 06:06 PM
RE: Am I still an atheist?
Why is it inevitable? Do you refer to Skynet, sir?
And why is your vision limited to expanding from earth. If there are other species on other planets, surely more than one weren't destroyed by a comet 65 million years ago, so they've had plenty more time to evolve their machine god. Alien machine gods would surely know about our attempts to build a machine god and would likely destroy it before it reached omnipotence.

Also, if you are referring to an Abrahamic type god, part of its definition is to be eternally self-existent. Since your vision of a machine god has a beginning, it cannot be god so the whole idea of an evolved "god" is a bit ridiculous. Since we cannot predict with total accuracy how evolution will play itself out, it's a bit of a moot idea to state that intelligence will move toward infinite complexity. But since it seems like you're having fun with this idea, I refer you to Teilhard de Chardin if you'd like to waste more time expanding on his belief in an Omega Point. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Point

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12-05-2013, 06:56 PM
RE: Am I still an atheist?
(12-05-2013 05:13 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  Do you feel you need to persecute Dualitarians who believe we would only be creating a satan, and that the one true God not only already exists but would squash our planet like a bug if we threaten it?

No?
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12-05-2013, 07:20 PM
RE: Am I still an atheist?
(12-05-2013 06:06 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Why is it inevitable? Do you refer to Skynet, sir?
And why is your vision limited to expanding from earth. If there are other species on other planets, surely more than one weren't destroyed by a comet 65 million years ago, so they've had plenty more time to evolve their machine god. Alien machine gods would surely know about our attempts to build a machine god and would likely destroy it before it reached omnipotence.

Also, if you are referring to an Abrahamic type god, part of its definition is to be eternally self-existent. Since your vision of a machine god has a beginning, it cannot be god so the whole idea of an evolved "god" is a bit ridiculous. Since we cannot predict with total accuracy how evolution will play itself out, it's a bit of a moot idea to state that intelligence will move toward infinite complexity. But since it seems like you're having fun with this idea, I refer you to Teilhard de Chardin if you'd like to waste more time expanding on his belief in an Omega Point. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Point

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I don't know why you think my vision (and it is not my vision, I'm just surprised more people haven't heard of this) is limited to this planet. In fact, the very reason you have stated is an indication that we may be the only life in the Universe!

To the second point, I disagree. I see no need or reason for something like an Omega Point. It is the same silly, circular logic that Christians use to defend their faith. Perhaps an interesting idea at best.

I feel like my eyes have been opened. Not necessarily to the singularity, because the idea of it has been brewing in the back of my mind for a long time, but rather to the realization that most people already know and fear the singularity. Most people will purposely block the idea from entering their consciousness, much like religious people block the evidence all around them that contradicts their faith.
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12-05-2013, 07:31 PM
RE: Am I still an atheist?
The evidence is simply this:
Biological vs Technological:
Peregrine Falcon (200 mph) vs Minuteman ICBM missile (15,000 mph)
Cheetah (80 mph) vs ThrustSSC (760 mph)
Kasparov vs Deep Blue
Ken Jennings and Brad Rutter vs Watson
Human (200+ IQ) vs ?
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