Am I still an atheist?
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14-05-2013, 01:04 AM
RE: Am I still an atheist?
Guys...I can barely hear it...can you turn the volume up?
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14-05-2013, 05:49 AM
RE: Am I still an atheist?
If you can't bring yourself to persecute other human beings you can't be much of a theist. Ergo you count as atheist.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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14-05-2013, 07:04 AM
RE: Am I still an atheist?
I personally don't think that machines will ever become "aware" when compared to us. As technology improves and machine calculations improve it would be limited to its parameters that are programmed into it by us. If there came a point where it could surpass these parameters it still wouldn't be "aware" because it would "know" that it is simply a machine (how it was built and how it worked)

People can kinda guess what a machine would do once it reached the "singularity" and I suppose its kind of fun guessing what it would do when the reality is I don't think any of us can even conceive such things and guess what would happen. It would be like trying to guess "infinity" because that is only thing I can think of that comes close to future calculation speed that we can even comprehend of all information know to humankind ever put it into it.

In something that wouldn't have biases, nor faith or beliefs, just input, we would have to program it to have "awareness" like us, we would have to set its parameters to be like us... because even if we modeled it on our brains that is no guarantee it would be like us. It wouldn't have a sub conscious because it would have direct and instant access to all information and that is a big seperation between us and machine. A sub conscious would potentially be a hindrance because it would not be able to operate fully and efficiently. We would have to program it to have this sub conscious/hindrance and again we would only be modeling it on our own "awareness"... hence it wouldn't be "self aware".... just programmed to appear that way.

I also think that we could potentially make a machine that is so smart it actually becomes redundant to use. You could set its parameters to improve on lets say... a motor vehicle, to become more proficient in every single way. In an instant it would make almost infinite amounts of models and test them with every parameter we had given it until it came out with what it KNEW as being the most efficient machine, it could come out with something so advanced it would have to teach us how to understand it, make it and use it.

It would be like a caveman asking to get somewhere quicker and you coming out with a trans-dimensional teleportation device. First you would have to teach the caveman what trans dimensional meant.............. Big Grin

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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14-05-2013, 04:57 PM
RE: Am I still an atheist?
(12-05-2013 08:04 AM)Funtheist Wrote:  I think I may be a Singularitarian.

Basically, it is inevitable that we will create a machine intelligence that will be able to further improve itself, essentially becoming God. This machine intelligence will be able to manipulate matter in every way imaginable that is within the limits of physics, but will also discover the complete laws of physics.

I feel a sense of religious significance when I think of the singularity expanding from Earth to envelop the entire Universe. If it decided to keep the Earth for biological life, it would be God and know everything on Earth, and be able to shape Earth in any way imaginable.

Your first problem is center of the universe.

There is no centre of the universe! According to the standard theories of cosmology, the universe started with a "Big Bang" about 14 thousand million years ago and has been expanding ever since. Yet there is no centre to the expansion; it is the same everywhere. The Big Bang should not be visualised as an ordinary explosion. The universe is not expanding out from a centre into space; rather, the whole universe is expanding and it is doing so equally at all places, as far as we can tell.

In 1929 Edwin Hubble announced that he had measured the speed of galaxies at different distances from us, and had discovered that the farther they were, the faster they were receding. This might suggest that we are at the centre of the expanding universe, but in fact if the universe is expanding uniformly according to Hubble's law, then it will appear to do so from any vantage point.

If we see a galaxy B receding from us at 10,000 km/s, an alien in galaxy B will see our galaxy A receding from it at 10,000 km/s in the opposite direction. Another galaxy C twice as far away in the same direction as B will be seen by us as receding at 20,000 km/s. The alien will see it receding at 10,000 km/s:

From A 0 km/s 10,000 km/s 20,000 km/s
From B -10,000 km/s 0 km/s 10,000 km/s

So from the point of view of the alien at B, everything is expanding away from it, whichever direction it looks in, just the same as it does for us.

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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14-05-2013, 05:56 PM
Re: Am I still an atheist?
You don't think a deity exists now or in the past... I think you're an atheist.

Unless you believe this machine will be created and be able to time travel to the past and present.
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19-05-2013, 09:47 AM (This post was last modified: 21-05-2013 07:48 PM by Superluminal.)
RE: Am I still an atheist?
It depends on what your definition of a "God" is. What you are proposing is just a super powerful intelligence with great power, but it does not rely on magic or superstition to function, so it isn't a "God" in the sense of the word as used by the religious.

Secondly, there has actually been calculations done on how much information exists in the universe, and how long it would take to know everything about everything. The resounding conclusion is that even though we don't know exactly how much information exists yet, it is far past the point at which it would take much longer to learn it all, than the universe has left before absolute heat death occurs. So essentially, if you were to include "knowing everything about everything and having the power to shape everything" in the universe, even the most powerful intelligence will never reach this goal. It is a physical impossibility.
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