Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
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06-01-2014, 08:33 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(06-01-2014 06:47 AM)Dom Wrote:  Well, if you are not religious, you are culturally indoctrinated, i.e. you are defending a view that has been held around you as you grew up.

Coming from a different generation, I am not unfamiliar with that. When gay pride started, all kinds of otherwise reasonable people shared your view - it was the status quo.

Long as you start thinking about it and growing, that's ok. Question the attitudes you grew up with, the reason they are largely not shared anymore is because they don't make sense.

Society evolves just as we evolve physically. There was a time when women were thought to be too stupid to vote. Most all men thought so. It was a long struggle to get that changed. Now the struggle gays have fought for some 40+ years is finally starting to succeed. Of course there will be resistant pockets of the population. Give it 20 years and no one will think that gays don't deserve to have the same legal rights straights do.

It's time to base your opinions on facts, not hear say.
Fair enough, Dom - I take your points on board.
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06-01-2014, 08:59 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(06-01-2014 05:41 AM)veitstoss Wrote:  [



The apologetic "arguments" you pander demonstrate without a doubt that not only are you lying about being "non-religious", you are also failing miserably to hide the actual fact that you are some sort of batshit-crazy (most likely "catholic") theist "apologist" trolll -- But Hey, when are you fucking idiots going to start APOLOGIZING for your shit, anyway?
Honestly, I'm not religious. However, I would like to apologize to anyone who has found my view hurtful or offensive. There was no malice intended.
[/quote]


And maybe apologize for not answering questions put to you in regards to your thread (?)

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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06-01-2014, 09:49 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(06-01-2014 08:59 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 05:41 AM)veitstoss Wrote:  [


And maybe apologize for not answering questions put to you in regards to your thread (?)
Yes, sorry for that as well. I did want to respond in more detail to those who questioned me logically but was in and out doing other things. Maybe I shouldn't have bothered with the whole enterprise as it seems to have gone down like a mug of chilled vomit. I just wanted to get some opinions but underestimated the level of hostility fired at me! Rest assured I'll take Dom's advice and cogitate on this one. But I would like to state for the record that I'm not a theist or a troll. With that, I'll get out of your hair.
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06-01-2014, 09:52 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(06-01-2014 08:31 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 08:30 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  There's a bunch of reactionary bs going on here, but I fail to see how you did not anticipate this.

What you callin 'reactionary bs'??

Guy comes in here like a Cessna expressing an opinion, and half the forum emptied the AA on his dumb ass. Big Grin

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06-01-2014, 09:59 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(06-01-2014 09:52 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 08:31 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  What you callin 'reactionary bs'??

Guy comes in here like a Cessna expressing an opinion, and half the forum emptied the AA on his dumb ass. Big Grin

Tongue
(1) I was joking. Of course we were reactionary. I do take exception to "bs" tho.
(2) He started a thread with a prejudiced statement. Should we not react? I'm pretty sure he knew we would. Prejudiced declarations deserve an equal response.

lol

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06-01-2014, 10:03 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(06-01-2014 09:49 AM)veitstoss Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 08:59 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  And maybe apologize for not answering questions put to you in regards to your thread (?)
Yes, sorry for that as well. I did want to respond in more detail to those who questioned me logically but was in and out doing other things. Maybe I shouldn't have bothered with the whole enterprise as it seems to have gone down like a mug of chilled vomit. I just wanted to get some opinions but underestimated the level of hostility fired at me! Rest assured I'll take Dom's advice and cogitate on this one. But I would like to state for the record that I'm not a theist or a troll. With that, I'll get out of your hair.



I am completely unfamiliar with chilled vomit. I can honestly say I am sorry that you are. *wink*
Now.......... I suggest rather than leave that you stick around and hang out with us a little. This particular topic is a hot one and there IS emotion in it for most people. Basis most often being if YOU are allowed your feelings on the matter (and how you live accordingly) then so do others. Surely you can appreciate that?

Don't go......... maybe just leave your prejudice alone for awhile and discuss other things. There's more to you than this ONE opinion I'm sure.


cheers

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06-01-2014, 10:14 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(06-01-2014 09:59 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I do take exception to "bs" tho.

Far enough. I do call my own bs, like Gwynnite, bs at times. Thumbsup

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06-01-2014, 10:29 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
Hello, I'mma just poke my head in because I'm on my 1:00-2:00 AM high and have nothing better to do and thus will ignore everything prior to the OP, and most of that too.

(05-01-2014 12:50 PM)veitstoss Wrote:  Allow me to state my view.

Being non-religious, I don't oppose same-sex marriage from a church or 'moral' point of view. I don't accept that the church or any other faith 'owns' the 'sacrament' of marriage. Rather, I oppose it from a socio-biological point of view.

Stripped down to its bare essentials, a marriage certificate is a legal document. It seems to me that, by far, the principal reason for marriage as a legal institution is to sanction the procreation of children - i.e the continuation of the human species.

Well it didn't take long for me to find the horseshit in the stall, now did it?
Marriage is the 'official' bonding of (typically) two humans, usually shown by a pointlessly expensive ceremony and a sheet of paper. Most other animals are far more pragmatic than we are; they just snuggle up to their partners and fight off roving intruders away from their thing, we aren't so smart. The principal reason for marriage isn't to 'sanction' procreation, just a social acknowledgement of pair-bonding, not unlike two otters holding hands when floating or flamingos making their flamboyant, weird heart-esque shape with their necks.

Not to mention that many people don't have children in marriage, a tonne have out-of-wedlock fun times and make babies (go ask your parents, I'm not going to explain it to you). They certainly did not need sanctioning to make their 9 month parasites, nor has anybody else ever. Plus let's not forget those who get married and never have children. IF that's the case, does that mean they are committing a crime from not following a legal institutions sanctions? Pretty sure that's an offence in most nations. Or at least a no-no. Fact is, you don't need marriage for people to make babies, in fact people making kids outside marriage (usually by accident) and being unable to support them is a big problem for Western Society and FSM knows the Asians and Indians aren't going to run out any time soon, marriage or no.

If you honestly think marriage (and baby sanctioning) has a significant part to play in the continuation of our species, you sir and/or madam, have a lot to learn about how nature works, 'cause humans are still natures puppets, no matter how much we like to think we aren't.

(05-01-2014 12:50 PM)veitstoss Wrote:  P.1} The vast majority of studies I've read suggest that, GENERALLY speaking, children who are product of married parents tend to make more rounded citizens than those whose parents are separated/divorced, in terms of how long they remain in education, salary level, likelihood of spending time in prison etc.

P.2} Therefore, couples who intend to marry in order to establish a stable foundation for the production of children should be incentivised by the state to do so (tax/inheritance benefits). It's in society's interests.

P.1} Congratulations, kids in households where the parents are still together fair better that those not in those circumstances, now I assume you have placed citations around for these, because, coming from a fairly messed up 'broken' home myself with divorced parents and two messed up siblings, I think they'd be very interesting reads, detailing for instance how children fair if their mother and father don't split up but remain in an unstable, passive-aggressive relationship, but still together as far as baby sanctioning is concerned. I wonder how much that sort of scenario has actually been studied, considering that it is highly likely that to be a very common occurrence.

P.2} Wait, what? Are children assembly line toys or something? "a stable foundation for the production of children", come off it, just because they are essentially parasites for the first 9 months of their existence, doesn't mean one can justifiably talk of the disgusting creatures as though people just make them because they obliged to hit a certain quota. People should not be given incentives to have children, financial aid perhaps but not incentives. You give incentives to factory owners to manufacturer locally, not for people to make living beings. Call me stupid but that seems like something people should only do when they want without being incentivised to do it, we sure as hell don't need to incentivise people; we have more than enough people as it is! Plus when people want kids they'll have them.

(05-01-2014 12:50 PM)veitstoss Wrote:  This ties in with the time-honoured definition of marriage being a union between a man and a woman, essentially because they represent the two components required for sexual reproduction. A same-sex couple represents one component only. In terms of entitlement to legally marry, this is not the same as a hetero couple who choose not to have children or are unable to do so for some physiological reason. Put simply, a same-sex couple has zero potential for producing a family therefore has no legal justification for marrying. Acquiring children by arranging for someone outside the relationship to provide the opposite sexual component required, so that one partner becomes a biological parent and the other is entitled to legally adopt the child, is a practice I would question the ethics of. It seems to wilfully deny a child its other biological parent.

So same-sex couples can't be allowed to marry.... because they don't 'represent' reproduction? That's it. But couples who are baron do. Despite not being able and therefore can be married.
I'd say you went full retard, but that would be an insult to people who go full retard and it would diminish your accomplishment; you went beyond full retard. Above and Beyond the Call of Retardation.

Same sex couples should not be allowed to be socially recognised as a couple with a slip of paper because they can't even look like they can reproduce. IF I was not running under the duel-assumption that you are stupid and possibly trolling, I'd have to draw the conclusion that you're disgusting by dint of your views.

If a gay couple has a surrogate birth their wanna-be kid, you'd question the ethics of that, but what if a straight couple left their kid at an orphanage and gave the kid away, would you question the ethics of that? Would you question the ethics of the State taking a child into Wardship from abusive biological parents because it's denying the kid their biological parents? Being biologically related to a child we have damn near no impact on a parents ability to love and care for their child if they wanted the child, I guarantee that.

(05-01-2014 12:50 PM)veitstoss Wrote:  I am not opposed to same-sex relationships per se but I draw the line at marriage. In my view, that can only ever be defined as a union between a man and a woman. It simply isn't a discrimination or equalities issue.

Clearly you DO have some opposition to same-sex relationships as you wish to have then not be recognised legally as a legitimate pairs in the eyes of the law through marriage.
Definitions change over time, get used to that fact or go take a nap in a landslide and stay under a rock for the rest of your life. You might not like it, but your absurd definition, if it was the definition of marriage anywhere to begin with, will be changed in favour of equality. It will take a couple more generations sure, but it will happen. Legal definitions can change every few years in some instances.

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06-01-2014, 10:37 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(06-01-2014 10:29 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Hello, I'mma just poke my head in because I'm on my 1:00-2:00 AM high and have nothing better to do and thus will ignore everything prior to the OP, and most of that too.

There isn't anything prior to the OP. Just saying Tongue
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06-01-2014, 10:41 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
Fucking FT...here's a bug! Let's squish it with my thermonuclear device! Big Grin

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