Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
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07-01-2014, 05:12 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(06-01-2014 04:19 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 04:08 PM)cjlr Wrote:  But on the other hand, something provoking a strong response may well seem to cue the beatdown without anyone ever having any such intent, given the nature of asymmetric communication; if responses are independently but along similar lines, or are made without considering the entire thread post-OP, or similar. And a contentious topic ("some people are more equal than others" isn't going to go down well!) is going to get some strong responses.

Considering the position they took holds no water and has been rather thoroughly destroyed many many times including in the recent DOMA case shows that the OP has not even done basic research on this so I don't feel I need to respect their views. I did however include a citation for the point I raised so if they were going to check their views they could.

Even though we have the world of research at our fingertips these days (was a lot of hard work when I grew up and involved spending days in the libraries), not everyone grew up becoming used to doing this. A lot of folks don't spend much time on the computer. I don't automatically assume everyone has been spending a lot of time researching all the views that are held by the people around them.

When someone comes and presents any view for discussion, I don't start out looking at them as a troll just because the view doesn't fit my world view. I start out explaining. That ends up leading to a better way to evaluate the person by their responses. The OP has responded by showing interest in our views, and by apologizing repeatedly for starting the topic.

I don't think it's good to stifle people and to make them feel bad for asking questions. That leads nowhere.

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07-01-2014, 05:33 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(06-01-2014 11:38 AM)DLJ Wrote:  No. Just when you said it.

Once someone throws up their hands and waves the white flag, it's bad form to throw another grenade.

Don't fret though... not the first time and won't be the last when someone weighs in with "I don't care what anyone has said so far but... hello? ... hello? where has everyone gone?"

Tongue

I remember there was a small island which was occupied in recent history, WWII I think, whereon the locals formed a resistence and army and drove off the invaders, and not having any real training, they didn't understand what the white flags of their enemy meant, so they kept shooting.
Perhaps they needed you around DLJ. Thumbsup

(06-01-2014 12:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  Nah, DLJ, he was merely making a prophecy. Yes

I don't understand....

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07-01-2014, 07:44 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(07-01-2014 05:12 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 04:19 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  

Even though we have the world of research at our fingertips these days (was a lot of hard work when I grew up and involved spending days in the libraries), not everyone grew up becoming used to doing this. A lot of folks don't spend much time on the computer. I don't automatically assume everyone has been spending a lot of time researching all the views that are held by the people around them.

When someone comes and presents any view for discussion, I don't start out looking at them as a troll just because the view doesn't fit my world view. I start out explaining. That ends up leading to a better way to evaluate the person by their responses. The OP has responded by showing interest in our views, and by apologizing repeatedly for starting the topic.

I don't think it's good to stifle people and to make them feel bad for asking questions. That leads nowhere.
Wise words again, Dom.
Revenant 77 was right to call me out over lack of research. My argument was constructed by reasoning from a series of assumptions probably formed from subconsciously absorbing media soundbites. That's not the same as basing an argument on facts or supporting evidence. It seems there's a lot more to this atheism game than not believing in god. I've learned much about myself and the level of intellectual prowess on this forum. For someone who generally considers himself a clear thinker, I'm in a state of confusion right now. It's a nice feeling!
If I ever feel brave enough to launch another thread here, you can be sure I'll do my homework.

Thanks to all of you.
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07-01-2014, 08:18 AM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(07-01-2014 07:44 AM)veitstoss Wrote:  
(07-01-2014 05:12 AM)Dom Wrote:  Even though we have the world of research at our fingertips these days (was a lot of hard work when I grew up and involved spending days in the libraries), not everyone grew up becoming used to doing this. A lot of folks don't spend much time on the computer. I don't automatically assume everyone has been spending a lot of time researching all the views that are held by the people around them.

When someone comes and presents any view for discussion, I don't start out looking at them as a troll just because the view doesn't fit my world view. I start out explaining. That ends up leading to a better way to evaluate the person by their responses. The OP has responded by showing interest in our views, and by apologizing repeatedly for starting the topic.

I don't think it's good to stifle people and to make them feel bad for asking questions. That leads nowhere.
Wise words again, Dom.
Revenant 77 was right to call me out over lack of research. My argument was constructed by reasoning from a series of assumptions probably formed from subconsciously absorbing media soundbites. That's not the same as basing an argument on facts or supporting evidence. It seems there's a lot more to this atheism game than not believing in god. I've learned much about myself and the level of intellectual prowess on this forum. For someone who generally considers himself a clear thinker, I'm in a state of confusion right now. It's a nice feeling!
If I ever feel brave enough to launch another thread here, you can be sure I'll do my homework.

Thanks to all of you.

Well that's good of you, provided you are sincere. I would recommend http://www.marriageequality.org/ as a good place to start.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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07-01-2014, 03:42 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
Wow...it's been a while since I popped into the politics section....just wow. That's it. I'm presuming we're getting trolled, right?

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07-01-2014, 04:18 PM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2014 07:32 PM by WillHopp.)
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
Gay marriage isn't an atheist issue, it's a human decency issue.

I edited this to what I meant. Blush

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07-01-2014, 05:15 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(05-01-2014 12:50 PM)veitstoss Wrote:  Allow me to state my view.

Being non-religious, I don't oppose same-sex marriage from a church or 'moral' point of view. I don't accept that the church or any other faith 'owns' the 'sacrament' of marriage. Rather, I oppose it from a socio-biological point of view.

Stripped down to its bare essentials, a marriage certificate is a legal document. It seems to me that, by far, the principal reason for marriage as a legal institution is to sanction the procreation of children - i.e the continuation of the human species.

The vast majority of studies I've read suggest that, GENERALLY speaking, children who are product of married parents tend to make more rounded citizens than those whose parents are separated/divorced, in terms of how long they remain in education, salary level, likelihood of spending time in prison etc. Therefore, couples who intend to marry in order to establish a stable foundation for the production of children should be incentivised by the state to do so (tax/inheritance benefits). This ties in with the time-honoured definition of marriage being a union between a man and a woman, essentially because they represent the two components required for sexual reproduction. A same-sex couple represents one component only. In terms of entitlement to legally marry, this is not the same as a hetero couple who choose not to have children or are unable to do so for some physiological reason. Put simply, a same-sex couple has zero potential for producing a family therefore has no legal justification for marrying. Acquiring children by arranging for someone outside the relationship to provide the opposite sexual component required, so that one partner becomes a biological parent and the other is entitled to legally adopt the child, is a practice I would question the ethics of. It seems to wilfully deny a child its other biological parent.

I am not opposed to same-sex relationships per se but I draw the line at marriage. In my view, that can only ever be defined as a union between a man and a woman. It simply isn't a discrimination or equalities issue.

How is it NOT discrimination if you are allowing hetero couples to have privileges like tax benefits, having a say in emergency medical situations, etc.? Here is a whole list of rights that are denied to homosexual couples for being denied a legal marriage:

http://www.freedomtomarry.org/pages/from...an-wolfson

Considering that our planet is incredibly overpopulated, the defense of needing to worry about the continuation of the human species is utterly ridiculous. You act as though denying gays the right to marry is going to change the fact that they are gay - as though they would otherwise be saying "well, I'm not allowed to be married, so I'll just have to stop being gay and worry about the continuation of the human species". That reasoning is sheer idiocy.

If you are going to allow married couples certain privileges that they would otherwise not have if they were merely dating, then you have to allow gay couples the same privileges as hetero couples, period.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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07-01-2014, 06:34 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(07-01-2014 03:42 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Wow...it's been a while since I popped into the politics section....just wow. That's it. I'm presuming we're getting trolled, right?


I thought troll too at first. But I was wrong. Not a troll. And actually apart from this particular prejudice a kinda cool guy. Soooooo Hoping he sticks around, gets to know us better, and shows us more than This particular opinion he holds.
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07-01-2014, 07:13 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
Homosexuality (like any kind of sexuality between consenting people) has nothing to to with human decency. Sex is sex. It doesn't need to be tied with morality issues at all as long as all parties are consenting.

This argument from the idiot is beyond stupid. Gay marriage shouldn't be allowed because it those marriages don't produce children. Fallacious for a number of reasons. A.) Heterosexual marriages don't necessarily produce children. B.) Homosexual marriage does not preclude extra-marital sex that produces a child. C.) Sex and marriage are not so well tied. Don't believe me? Go to a highschool or college and just look around. D.) Childless homosexual marriage does not alter the possibility of children being born in many cases. Most gay people wouldn't produce a child whether married or not. E.) Even if it did, so what? Too many humans anyway.

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07-01-2014, 07:39 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
Guys guys read the whole thread

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