Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
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05-01-2014, 01:06 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(05-01-2014 01:04 PM)veitstoss Wrote:  Marriage and the legality of it is not about resulting children but the potential for having them in terms of the components required for sexual reproduction.
[Citation needed]
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05-01-2014, 01:08 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(05-01-2014 01:04 PM)veitstoss Wrote:  
(05-01-2014 12:57 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Marriage, and the legality thereof, is not just about resulting children. There are hetero couples that don't or can't have children. So, by your thinking there is no reason for them to marry either. And if they do and children don't result, the union should be dissolved.
I addressed the issue of hetero couples who don't or can't have children. Marriage and the legality of it is not about resulting children but the potential for having them in terms of the components required for sexual reproduction.

Did I mention that you are an idiot?
In a nation with starving, abused, and homeless children filed into group homes and orphanages by the thousands every day, and you think we should give tax incentives for people who want to have more kids and not for those who can only adopt one of the millions who need a family? Take your head out of the sand!
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05-01-2014, 01:09 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(05-01-2014 01:08 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(05-01-2014 01:04 PM)veitstoss Wrote:  I addressed the issue of hetero couples who don't or can't have children. Marriage and the legality of it is not about resulting children but the potential for having them in terms of the components required for sexual reproduction.

Did I mention that you are an idiot?
In a nation with starving, abused, and homeless children filed into group homes and orphanages by the thousands every day, and you think we should give tax incentives for people who want to have more kids and not for those who can only adopt on of the millions who need a family? Take your head out of the sand!

I don't think it's in the sand...

...just sayin'.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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05-01-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(05-01-2014 01:08 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Take your head out of the sand your ass!
Fixed.
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05-01-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(05-01-2014 01:10 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(05-01-2014 01:08 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  Take your head out of the sand your ass!
Fixed.

Lol. Oh you guys
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05-01-2014, 01:13 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(05-01-2014 12:50 PM)veitstoss Wrote:  Allow me to state my view.

Being non-religious, I don't oppose same-sex marriage from a church or 'moral' point of view. I don't accept that the church or any other faith 'owns' the 'sacrament' of marriage. Rather, I oppose it from a socio-biological point of view.

Stripped down to its bare essentials, a marriage certificate is a legal document. It seems to me that, by far, the principal reason for marriage as a legal institution is to sanction the procreation of children - i.e the continuation of the human species.

The vast majority of studies I've read suggest that, GENERALLY speaking, children who are product of married parents tend to make more rounded citizens than those whose parents are separated/divorced, in terms of how long they remain in education, salary level, likelihood of spending time in prison etc. Therefore, couples who intend to marry in order to establish a stable foundation for the production of children should be incentivised by the state to do so (tax/inheritance benefits). It's in society's interests.

This ties in with the time-honoured definition of marriage being a union between a man and a woman, essentially because they represent the two components required for sexual reproduction. A same-sex couple represents one component only. In terms of entitlement to legally marry, this is not the same as a hetero couple who choose not to have children or are unable to do so for some physiological reason. Put simply, a same-sex couple has zero potential for producing a family therefore has no legal justification for marrying. Acquiring children by arranging for someone outside the relationship to provide the opposite sexual component required, so that one partner becomes a biological parent and the other is entitled to legally adopt the child, is a practice I would question the ethics of. It seems to wilfully deny a child its other biological parent.

I am not opposed to same-sex relationships per se but I draw the line at marriage. In my view, that can only ever be defined as a union between a man and a woman. It simply isn't a discrimination or equalities issue.

At least 1/2 of American children live in single parent homes, and thus in resultant poverty. The idea that same-sex marriage has ANY impact on that is a red herring. You are conflating a bunch of irrelevant, and unrelated issues, and assuming impacts that have never been demonstrated, or proven. Reproduction by interested couples in 2014 is no longer limited to traditional methods, (and the world does not need a larger population). Same sex couples adopt (and reproduce by other means) all the time, AND divorced people WITH children who marry same sex partners DO provide 2 parent homes, thus your simplistic TOTALLY false probability projection is WORTHLESS. It's crap. The Declaration of Independence says "All men are EQUAL". Whatever your opinions happen to be, you and NO ONE ONE has the right to deny THE SAME RIGHTS YOU HAVE, to others, even IF they might have a questionable undesirable outcome.

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05-01-2014, 01:18 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
Here's the thread veitstoss, rather then forcing us to repeat ourselves read this thread and then if you feel you have some new arguments to present....keep them to yourself present them here. OK?

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid387042

. . . ................................ ......................................... . [Image: 2dsmnow.gif] Eat at Joe's
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05-01-2014, 01:19 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(05-01-2014 01:04 PM)veitstoss Wrote:  
(05-01-2014 12:57 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Marriage, and the legality thereof, is not just about resulting children. There are hetero couples that don't or can't have children. So, by your thinking there is no reason for them to marry either. And if they do and children don't result, the union should be dissolved.
I addressed the issue of hetero couples who don't or can't have children. Marriage and the legality of it is not about resulting children but the potential for having them in terms of the components required for sexual reproduction.


[Image: 178b742e.gif]



I predict
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due to
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When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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05-01-2014, 01:27 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
So because our flawed systems require an unsustainable growth to avoid catastrophic failure, we should incentivise marriage between people who are more likely to create contributing members of society... Seems legit.

I think I could improve on that. Since the idiots tend to reproduce more, and the geniuses dont bother much at all, we shouldn't allow those with higher education to abuse the luxuries of marriage and its wonderful benefits until they have proven they will be having children. Obviously we will disallow anyone who can't procreate.

All newly married couples must attend a baby making course, which will teach them how to maximize the baby making years they have left, and raise their kids to start early.


I'd actually prefer the opposite. Make parenting and intelligence tests a requirement before birth or adoption. Unlicenced births will be taxed, directly funding parenting courses. Those unable to pay the tax are clearly in no financially stable situation, and may have child services investigate.

I realize our system requires growth, but we simply can't keep letting the morons pop out babies...

Unless they're giving it to a nice, newly married homosexual couple or something Smile
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05-01-2014, 01:27 PM
RE: Am I the only atheist opposed to same-sex marriage?
(05-01-2014 01:18 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  Here's the thread veitstoss, rather then forcing us to repeat ourselves read this thread and then if you feel you have some new arguments to present....keep them to yourself present them here. OK?

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid387042

Thanks, Slowminded. I haven't been on the forum for a while so I guess I missed it.
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