Poll: Do christian apologetics avoid the real questions in debate?
Yes
No
I don't care
We all know the flying spaghetti monster is really in charge anyway.
[Show Results]
 
Am I the only one frustrated with how Theist debate?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
10-11-2014, 09:19 AM
RE: Am I the only one frustrated with how Theist debate?
A perfect example of Christians who evade everything in a debate is Matt Dillahunty's 'debate' with Ray Comfort. Once they were on the air, Ray said he didn't want to debate Matt after all, and he instead used the time to preach his message. Oftentimes, this is pretty much all their arguments amount to anyway. Everything comes with Bible references, and they never seem to understand that the logic is completely invalid to someone who doesn't have the presupposition that the Bible is itself valid. Yet, if you try to explain to them that it is circular reasoning to quote the Bible in order to prove the Bible, they're dumbfounded. Again using the example of Ray Comfort, he has used the analogy that the best way to prove who is in the White House is to actually look inside the White House. However, with that same logic, I could 'prove' that Michael Douglas is in the White House by citing the movie, the American President.

Celebrate Reason ● Think For Yourself
www.theHeathensGuide.com
[Image: heathens-guide.png]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes JonDarbyXIII's post
10-11-2014, 09:43 AM
RE: Am I the only one frustrated with how Theist debate?
(10-11-2014 09:19 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 07:25 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  You'll notice a difference between how Christians talk about God when talking to each other or when talking to skeptics. When talking to each other, they make all sorts of unquestioned assumptions. It's not until their views are put under scrutiny that they have to start wording things more carefully.

I know I've posted this before, but it's rather apt. Here are Frank's thoughts on the matter of how God goes from being an invisible bearded leprechaun that meddles in all affairs to being some vague, distant concept:

Oh god yes. There is nothing more brain addling than listening to theist talk to each other about their faith. Especially when they go on about the after life... just a vapid dialogue filled with nothing but warm fuzzies and wishful thinking.

Well, yes. Every religious "claim" regarding God and God's nature is effectively an empty shibboleth.

They repeat stock phrases by rote to each other because it makes them feel good, not because it contains any meaning.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes cjlr's post
10-11-2014, 10:20 AM
RE: Am I the only one frustrated with how Theist debate?
Calling upon divine intervention as proof would be testing God and he throws a hissy fit and gives you the silent treatment when you do that.

I think I learned that in Sunday School. Evidently, God's erratic, illogical ego is more important than the souls he loves.

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-11-2014, 10:42 AM
RE: Am I the only one frustrated with how Theist debate?
I've noticed how often they completely side-step the questions.
A more infamous example was at the 'debate' between Bill Nye and that idiot Ken Ham.
Bill asked Ken to provide evidence for creationist claims and Ken responded with giving examples of Scientists who believed in Creationism.

Fucking dishonest douche.

Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage among his books. For to you kingdoms and their armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned with the flick of a finger.”

― Gordon R. Dickson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Winterwolf00's post
10-11-2014, 10:45 AM
RE: Am I the only one frustrated with how Theist debate?
(10-11-2014 09:19 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Oh god yes. There is nothing more brain addling than listening to theist talk to each other about their faith. Especially when they go on about the after life... just a vapid dialogue filled with nothing but warm fuzzies and wishful thinking.

Bonus points: when their conversations with each other violate all of their carefully laid-out apologetics for the skeptics.

You see this a lot with things like "God's plan" or other involvement in human decision-making running afoul with the notion of free will.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-11-2014, 11:46 AM
RE: Am I the only one frustrated with how Theist debate?
I'm glad to see that I am not the only one who is irritated by this. The bigger question is how to force the issue and show the lack of evidence to "fake Christians," the 90% of the people that go to church because it gives them a sense of community more than anything. How do you show them that they don't need to believe in a god to do good?

I say this because I have noticed that the church is becoming increasingly aggressive in their messages, I have no doubt that this is because information is so easy to come by on the internet that it has really hurt their bottom line, but it seems a lot different than when I was younger. Maybe it's just my perception, but when I was younger it seemed to be a more passive experience.

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes microterf's post
10-11-2014, 12:39 PM
RE: Am I the only one frustrated with how Theist debate?
(10-11-2014 11:46 AM)microterf Wrote:  How do you show them that they don't need to believe in a god to do good?

You need to get them to jettison the notion that it's more important to swear an oath of fealty to Jesus than it is to do good things on earth. Also, you need to get them to stop being scared of hell.

Go to any big social media site and post something to the effect of "you don't have to be Christian to be a good person.". You will find a bunch of people nominally agreeing with you, and then telling you that "it doesn't matter because you'll still go to hell" in the same breath. They aren't as concerned with your good deeds as they are with your allegiance. I've said this before: the Christian god incentivizes the wrong things.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes RobbyPants's post
10-11-2014, 12:46 PM
RE: Am I the only one frustrated with how Theist debate?
(09-11-2014 05:01 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(08-11-2014 04:59 PM)microterf Wrote:  After watching a couple hundred hours of debates over the last 2 years, I have noticed something that has really made me mad. They never debate based on what they sell.

This last week I listened to a pastor talk about the story of the fiery furnace (Daniel 3:14-29) where 3 guys were thrown into a furnace because they refused to believe in the Kings god. They were unharmed because they were protected by god. He then preached how amazing this was, and that he would do the same thing for any of the believers because of the protection of the holy spirit. I did notice however that there was no demonstration. He did not climb into a furnace to show us how this worked.

In my opinion they sell christianity to people because of the divine power that it holds, but when they debate, they never defend that. They always debate that you could get your moral guidance from the bible. I would like to see the issue be pushed by atheists that they really should show some proof of the divine intervention, or be forced to admit that it doesn't happen, and that religion is more of a comforting mechanism than anything else, and should be treated as such.

Of course they don't argue from that sort of position; they that sort of bullshit is indefensible so they don't use it; instead they are always on the offensive with nebulous claims about first causes and how can people have feels without Gawd.

This hole thing reminds me of the classic clip:



What movie is that. I forget(?)

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-11-2014, 12:55 PM
RE: Am I the only one frustrated with how Theist debate?
(10-11-2014 12:46 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(09-11-2014 05:01 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Of course they don't argue from that sort of position; they that sort of bullshit is indefensible so they don't use it; instead they are always on the offensive with nebulous claims about first causes and how can people have feels without Gawd.

This hole thing reminds me of the classic clip:



What movie is that. I forget(?)

I believe it was Dragonslayer.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-11-2014, 01:09 PM
RE: Am I the only one frustrated with how Theist debate?
I won't debate one-on-one anymore. Most people see what they want to see or hear what they want to hear. Only those who have been seriously hurt or affected or annoyed by what they believe will seek out the truth or at the very least alternatives. Like Robby said, until you can get the person to put their allegiance aside, they will never hear you with an open mind.

I WILL debate in public because it's not the debater I'm trying to help/educate; I'm hoping to reach those witnessing the exchange. I love the comment section of FB for this very reason. But, if I somehow open the eyes of the debater then that's a bonus.

In your case, what will ultimately happen, as with most ignorant theist debaters, is they will fall back on faith, as in "I have faith," which always is a big frustration. They will feel that's their ace in the hole and that it can't be questioned or refuted. It's not a legitimate debate in front of a paid audience, so they won't understand the concept of having legitimate arguments and they won't feel the pressure of a qualified moderator insisting on an answer of substance.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
----
Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: