Am I wrong?
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26-08-2011, 10:14 AM (This post was last modified: 26-08-2011 11:42 AM by latvianxave8.)
Am I wrong?
I was in a discussion on another message board... I had since chosen to just ignore the thread because it was giving me too much stress... but just to re-affirm that I know I am correct:

Fact - demonstrably correct piece of data
Theory - heavily supported explanation of a natural phenomena
Valid and Confirmable are synonyms (even if in a loose sense)
The Big Bang Theory is indeed more confirmable than The Easter Bunny

All of these things that I said people mocked me for and said I was an idiot.

Am I?

They also said I was stupid for claiming that:

A) The Big Bang Theory has facts to support it
in conjunction with
B) The Big Bang Theory can be disproven in the future

They claimed that statements A and B contradict eachother

Fight the system,

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26-08-2011, 11:12 AM
RE: Am I wrong?
Next time, talk to a mature audience... Wink

I don't really see any problems with your statement. However, If I'm unwilling i can see a contradiction.
I think it's all about semantics....

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26-08-2011, 11:29 AM
RE: Am I wrong?
(26-08-2011 11:12 AM)The_observer Wrote:  Next time, talk to a mature audience... Wink

I don't really see any problems with your statement. However, If I'm unwilling i can see a contradiction.
I think it's all about semantics....

Hey thanks Big Grin

Idk, it's the same crap I get from the kids at school who have no idea how science works. Makes me think you are correct about their immaturity.

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26-08-2011, 11:40 AM
RE: Am I wrong?
I have a couple of comments:

Fact - demonstrably correct piece of data. Facts are data, but they can't be classified as correct or incorrect. If they are observed, then there certainly is data there. Data can't be correct or incorrect.

Theory - heavily supported natural phenomena This definition is incorrect. A theory is not a natural phenomenon. A theory is a model in which to fit a class of observations. Theories should not only explain existing data, but also make verifiable predictions.

Quote:Valid and Confirmable are synonyms (even if in a loose sense)
Also not correct. The concept of validity is usually used in logic arguments. An argument is valid if the conclusion logically follows from the premises. A valid argument isn't necessarily confirmable. Example:
- All aliens in the Andromeda galaxy are mortal.
- Spok comes from the Andromeda galaxy.
- Therefore Spok is mortal.
The argument is perfectly valid, but can't be confirmed.
Now for confirming theories. No theory is 100% confirmed, because you can't know a-priori whether in the future you'll find a piece of data that contradicts it. All we can say about a theory is how "good" it is in terms of how well existing data fits it, how precise its predictions are, and how many different classes of data it fits. An example is that Newtonian physics was "better" than previous theories because it explained with one theory both what happened on the ground (falling apples) AND celestial motion, 2 apparently very different phenomena.

Quote:A) The Big Bang Theory has facts to support it
in conjunction with
B) The Big Bang Theory can be disproven in the future

They claimed that statements A and B contradict each other
Of course they don't contradict each other! Newtonian physics had plenty of facts supporting it, until we found a piece of data (the orbit of Mercury) that didn't, at which point we needed General Relativity. Notice that this didn't make Newtonian physics WRONG, only INCOMPLETE.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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26-08-2011, 11:42 AM (This post was last modified: 26-08-2011 11:49 AM by latvianxave8.)
RE: Am I wrong?
Oh... crap... that was a typo. I meant a heavily supported EXPLANATION OF A natural phenomena!
on the issue of the definition of fact... I used that defintion to combat their defintion, that fact meant truth

they claimed that if something is not 100% absolutely certain, it cannot be fact

which is non sense

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26-08-2011, 11:53 AM
RE: Am I wrong?
Your statement isn't contradictory atall. You said the big bang theory has facts supporting it, you didn't say the big bang theory was fact. If you did then the second statement would be contradictory to the first.

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26-08-2011, 11:55 AM
RE: Am I wrong?
(26-08-2011 11:53 AM)FSM_scot Wrote:  Your statement isn't contradictory atall. You said the big bang theory has facts supporting it, you didn't say the big bang theory was fact. If you did then the second statement would be contradictory to the first.

eh idk I think I need to find another forum for my outside interests... one with more intelligent people.

I mean, this forum is filled with smart people, which I love... but for my interests outside atheism/science this forum is limited, lol

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26-08-2011, 12:23 PM
RE: Am I wrong?
(26-08-2011 11:55 AM)latvianxave8 Wrote:  but for my interests outside atheism/science this forum is limited, lol
Why is that? It's not like we people on this forum have no OTHER interests then atheism. You'll find a lot of different interests here, ranging from politics, over steam trains to pokemon.

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26-08-2011, 05:15 PM
RE: Am I wrong?
(26-08-2011 12:23 PM)The_observer Wrote:  
(26-08-2011 11:55 AM)latvianxave8 Wrote:  but for my interests outside atheism/science this forum is limited, lol
Why is that? It's not like we people on this forum have no OTHER interests then atheism. You'll find a lot of different interests here, ranging from politics, over steam trains to pokemon.

yea but I mean they aren't regular topics of discussion...

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28-08-2011, 09:26 PM
RE: Am I wrong?
(26-08-2011 05:15 PM)latvianxave8 Wrote:  
(26-08-2011 12:23 PM)The_observer Wrote:  
(26-08-2011 11:55 AM)latvianxave8 Wrote:  but for my interests outside atheism/science this forum is limited, lol
Why is that? It's not like we people on this forum have no OTHER interests then atheism. You'll find a lot of different interests here, ranging from politics, over steam trains to pokemon.

yea but I mean they aren't regular topics of discussion...

Well if that's the case don't talk about atheism and physics in those forums. You can belong to more than one forum, I promise this one won't get jealous

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