Am i atheist?
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13-12-2014, 05:54 AM
RE: Am i atheist?
(13-12-2014 03:18 AM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  Iv'e never once believed in Adam or eve not even for a split second. I always looked into the universe for my answer. Iv'e only ever held on to the fear of hell because of it being drilled into my head as a child. Iv'e questioned the idea of god, but all in all i never believed in anything inside of the bible it's self. Not even the story's about a ark, the moment i read about evolution i connected and had confidence. Without putting my belief in spirits inside of everything if i push "Hold" would i honestly be considered an atheist? Please i only ask for nobody to jump on me this is my personal beliefs and i'm just being curious as it's my nature and always has been. I haven't ever really thought about the entire thing other then the idea of a god and now, yeah now i'm really wondering. Consider

Note: I wasn't sure what form this should be put in so i just put it here.

You are an atheist who wonders about things. You haven't defined yourself as opposed to religion or other atheists, and why should you have to?

The only reason we call ourselves atheists is that we define ourselves as compared to theists. You haven't found cause to do so until now.

Had you been born a couple generations ago, you would have lived most of your life without defining yourself as atheist, as did I.

Your belief in spirits inside of everything is not wrong, IMO, it is just not defined. You could try on different definitions of what you call spirit. If you sit down and make a list of all that points you to that belief, and then try to rename that collection of things, you will likely find that you don't believe in "spirits", but in a life force.... and you will find yourself in the field of philosophy rather than spiritualism. These are your thoughts about existence and what makes us all tick, and much of that is ill defined and lacks research to this day.

The perception of spirits or souls comes from a feeling we all share - that we are separate from our bodies. We feel that we are in control of our bodies to a point, and that "it", the controlling mechanism, is perceived as separate from the rest of us. From there you can go into philosophy, psychology and all kinds of ways of trying to dissect this feeling and find facts to base it on.

It's an age old pursuit, it's likely responsible for the god myth as well as all of psychology and much of philosophy.

All of this is just about definitions. If you don't believe in gods, you are an atheist. Venturing into philosophy or psychology certainly doesn't change that.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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13-12-2014, 06:02 AM
RE: Am i atheist?
(13-12-2014 05:54 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(13-12-2014 03:18 AM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  Iv'e never once believed in Adam or eve not even for a split second. I always looked into the universe for my answer. Iv'e only ever held on to the fear of hell because of it being drilled into my head as a child. Iv'e questioned the idea of god, but all in all i never believed in anything inside of the bible it's self. Not even the story's about a ark, the moment i read about evolution i connected and had confidence. Without putting my belief in spirits inside of everything if i push "Hold" would i honestly be considered an atheist? Please i only ask for nobody to jump on me this is my personal beliefs and i'm just being curious as it's my nature and always has been. I haven't ever really thought about the entire thing other then the idea of a god and now, yeah now i'm really wondering. Consider

Note: I wasn't sure what form this should be put in so i just put it here.

You are an atheist who wonders about things. You haven't defined yourself as opposed to religion or other atheists, and why should you have to?

The only reason we call ourselves atheists is that we define ourselves as compared to theists. You haven't found cause to do so until now.

Had you been born a couple generations ago, you would have lived most of your life without defining yourself as atheist, as did I.

Your belief in spirits inside of everything is not wrong, IMO, it is just not defined. You could try on different definitions of what you call spirit. If you sit down and make a list of all that points you to that belief, and then try to rename that collection of things, you will likely find that you don't believe in "spirits", but in a life force.... and you will find yourself in the field of philosophy rather than spiritualism. These are your thoughts about existence and what makes us all tick, and much of that is ill defined and lacks research to this day.

The perception of spirits or souls comes from a feeling we all share - that we are separate from our bodies. We feel that we are in control of our bodies to a point, and that "it", the controlling mechanism, is perceived as separate from the rest of us. From there you can go into philosophy, psychology and all kinds of ways of trying to dissect this feeling and find facts to base it on.

It's an age old pursuit, it's likely responsible for the god myth as well as all of psychology and much of philosophy.

All of this is just about definitions. If you don't believe in gods, you are an atheist. Venturing into philosophy or psychology certainly doesn't change that.

I already enjoy philosophy i won't not believe in a after life, however depending on how good i get to know people maybe sometime i'll be open to talking more upon the subject. I have before, however on skype with people who i can say i found "Respectful" and trust for me is a hard thing to give to a person fully.
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13-12-2014, 06:08 AM
RE: Am i atheist?
(13-12-2014 05:54 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(13-12-2014 03:18 AM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  Iv'e never once believed in Adam or eve not even for a split second. I always looked into the universe for my answer. Iv'e only ever held on to the fear of hell because of it being drilled into my head as a child. Iv'e questioned the idea of god, but all in all i never believed in anything inside of the bible it's self. Not even the story's about a ark, the moment i read about evolution i connected and had confidence. Without putting my belief in spirits inside of everything if i push "Hold" would i honestly be considered an atheist? Please i only ask for nobody to jump on me this is my personal beliefs and i'm just being curious as it's my nature and always has been. I haven't ever really thought about the entire thing other then the idea of a god and now, yeah now i'm really wondering. Consider

Note: I wasn't sure what form this should be put in so i just put it here.

You are an atheist who wonders about things. You haven't defined yourself as opposed to religion or other atheists, and why should you have to?

The only reason we call ourselves atheists is that we define ourselves as compared to theists. You haven't found cause to do so until now.

Had you been born a couple generations ago, you would have lived most of your life without defining yourself as atheist, as did I.

Your belief in spirits inside of everything is not wrong, IMO, it is just not defined. You could try on different definitions of what you call spirit. If you sit down and make a list of all that points you to that belief, and then try to rename that collection of things, you will likely find that you don't believe in "spirits", but in a life force.... and you will find yourself in the field of philosophy rather than spiritualism. These are your thoughts about existence and what makes us all tick, and much of that is ill defined and lacks research to this day.

The perception of spirits or souls comes from a feeling we all share - that we are separate from our bodies. We feel that we are in control of our bodies to a point, and that "it", the controlling mechanism, is perceived as separate from the rest of us. From there you can go into philosophy, psychology and all kinds of ways of trying to dissect this feeling and find facts to base it on.

It's an age old pursuit, it's likely responsible for the god myth as well as all of psychology and much of philosophy.

All of this is just about definitions. If you don't believe in gods, you are an atheist. Venturing into philosophy or psychology certainly doesn't change that.

Shockingly iv'e actually been threw some deep insults and comments that wasn't the best experience. However growing older i came to realize a lot of things a lot more then many realize. Some of which have nothing to do with religion but the ones that do i'll say iv'e been confused with a satanist before.
There is to much to put however i just believe people are nuts. Evil_monster
but i get the fact still that in your time it may have been much worse i'm sure.
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13-12-2014, 06:19 AM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2014 06:22 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Am i atheist?
(13-12-2014 05:33 AM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  
(13-12-2014 04:44 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  To be an atheist, you do not need to espouse total assurance that god doesn't exist. Atheism is a word which describes the status of one's belief in deities and informs nothing else, hence the question: Do you believe in any god or gods? An atheist, by definition does not hold a positive belief in any deities.

Personally, I argue that agnosticism is irrelevant to the immediate question. Primarily because agnosticism and atheism are not contradictory states. they also describe two totally distinct things.

Your theistic stance determines where you are an atheist or some form of theist: Either you do have a positive belief in a deity/deities or you don't. It is a question of belief, not knowledge, which is determined by the gnostic stance.

As such, your question of "Am i atheist?" can be answered by a yes/no question: The answer to your question whether you are an atheist literally requires nothing else but an honest answer to the question posed to you.

Hopefully you get what I mean when I ask you, once more: Do you believe in any deities?

If you do, than you are not an atheist.
If you don't believe in any deities, than you are an atheist, by definition.

I get somethings of what you're saying don't get me wrong however i can't put together what you mean by belief, not knowledge.

I can understand why you might have trouble getting what I mean there.

Unfortunately, I am far from eloquent enough to create what I feel would do justice as a description and explanation.... But that wont stop me from bumbling about anyway.

Theism dictates the stance of your belief; you do (theist) or you do not (atheist) believe in god.
Gnosticism dictates your stance on knowledge (what you think you know): You have knowledge (Gnostic) or you don't have knowledge (agnostic).

In this way, they are distinct 'entities' for consideration.
Your stance on both inform your ultimate position.

However, we can ascertain your immediate 'title' on either of the 'Stances" independently with the same basic 'yes/no' question I asked you previously, as the answer will inform us, in this instance whether you are an atheist or a theist based purely on the yes or no. Of course, this requires you to separate out all other thinking and answer the question as it is.

Of course, if you are having more trouble, just follow the chart. It works in the same way as my dichotomy, it just includes the 'knowledge' stance, and is therefore a tad more 'in depth'.
[Image: Agnostic%2Bv%2BGnostic%2Bv%2BAtheist%2Bv%2BTheist.png]

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13-12-2014, 06:21 AM
RE: Am i atheist?
(13-12-2014 06:02 AM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  
(13-12-2014 05:54 AM)Dom Wrote:  You are an atheist who wonders about things. You haven't defined yourself as opposed to religion or other atheists, and why should you have to?

The only reason we call ourselves atheists is that we define ourselves as compared to theists. You haven't found cause to do so until now.

Had you been born a couple generations ago, you would have lived most of your life without defining yourself as atheist, as did I.

Your belief in spirits inside of everything is not wrong, IMO, it is just not defined. You could try on different definitions of what you call spirit. If you sit down and make a list of all that points you to that belief, and then try to rename that collection of things, you will likely find that you don't believe in "spirits", but in a life force.... and you will find yourself in the field of philosophy rather than spiritualism. These are your thoughts about existence and what makes us all tick, and much of that is ill defined and lacks research to this day.

The perception of spirits or souls comes from a feeling we all share - that we are separate from our bodies. We feel that we are in control of our bodies to a point, and that "it", the controlling mechanism, is perceived as separate from the rest of us. From there you can go into philosophy, psychology and all kinds of ways of trying to dissect this feeling and find facts to base it on.

It's an age old pursuit, it's likely responsible for the god myth as well as all of psychology and much of philosophy.

All of this is just about definitions. If you don't believe in gods, you are an atheist. Venturing into philosophy or psychology certainly doesn't change that.

I already enjoy philosophy i won't not believe in a after life, however depending on how good i get to know people maybe sometime i'll be open to talking more upon the subject. I have before, however on skype with people who i can say i found "Respectful" and trust for me is a hard thing to give to a person fully.

I, too, think there is an afterlife - I won't say I "believe" in it, but I entertain theories of possibilities. It's not the common belief I harbor though. I do think that your "person", as in the collective, conscious sum of your attributes and experiences, resides in your brain and dies when the brain does.

However, everything in nature gets recycled sooner or later, and it stands to reason that, should there be some sort of "life energy", it would be recycled too. Not having a brain with memories or a body with DNA would make it the same as any other "life energy" though, and since we have absolutely no proof or definition of such a life energy, we can't tell in what way it would be recycled. My guess would be that it mixes with other life energy and ends up supplying one thing or another to the universe. Pure speculation without proper basis here. Smile

While these are but idle thoughts that cannot be proven or disproved, some day we may discover new ways of measuring things and get an answer. It would be arrogant and misleading to assume that we have found all that there is. People have been thinking that for thousands of years and it is always wrong.

In any way, if you don't believe in gods you are defined as atheist. Any musings you may entertain, have nothing to do with it.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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13-12-2014, 06:46 AM
RE: Am i atheist?
(13-12-2014 05:51 AM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  
(13-12-2014 05:39 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Out of curiosity, if you believe in an afterlife how did you "know" that for lack of better words? How do you believe in the supernatural and more importantly, why?

I'm open to saying that so i could have gotten a honest reply but i'd rather not get into it as every time i ever have unless talking kindly face to face or meeting a person first.
there's always arguments or insults, i'm just not into that kinda thing.
Not to say you would but just to be on the safe side. I hope you understand and if not i'm not sure what to tell you.

No prob. If you're not comfortable that's fine I was actually just curious because it's not often you see someone who absolutely believes in an afterlife but not a diety. I understand totally.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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13-12-2014, 07:01 AM
RE: Am i atheist?
(13-12-2014 06:46 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(13-12-2014 05:51 AM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  I'm open to saying that so i could have gotten a honest reply but i'd rather not get into it as every time i ever have unless talking kindly face to face or meeting a person first.
there's always arguments or insults, i'm just not into that kinda thing.
Not to say you would but just to be on the safe side. I hope you understand and if not i'm not sure what to tell you.

No prob. If you're not comfortable that's fine I was actually just curious because it's not often you see someone who absolutely believes in an afterlife but not a diety. I understand totally.

Yeah, i'm sure it is rare but honestly i think it's because of how you interpret the afterlife everyone has a different way or reason for thinking or believing in something weather it's no god or a god. Or no after life or a afterlife.
And so somethings sound nuts, other things don't. but I've noticed with many people
if you can't show them then why even speak about it?
it's only my viewpoint i can't give you my life and say live it.
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13-12-2014, 07:27 AM
RE: Am i atheist?
Maybe it'd help to quantify your god belief either in relative terms or percentages

I am very confident that the Greek gods do not exist... virtually 100%
I am very confident that Yahweh does not exist... virtually 100%
I am confident that no personal god exists... 99.99999999%
I am confident that no deistic god exists.... 99.999%

In no case do I make an absolute claim because I've been wrong before and could be wrong about this. I just find it extremely unlikely based on the evidence I've been given so I live my life on the assumption that I'm right.

How would you rate the probability that some god exists? Very unlikely, Possibly, Very possibly, Probably, Very probably, Almost certainly? If you are in the "possible, but not probable" range, or if you rate it as less than 50% likely, then I would say you are an atheist.

What you call yourself isn't really all that important. The A-word has a lot of negative baggage in general opinion so it takes a while to be comfortable with it. It also doesn't mean you can't believe in ghosts or afterlives or anything outside the one question it deals with.

Keep thinking, reading, and asking questions and you will find what makes sense to you and then you'll know what label best applies.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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13-12-2014, 07:32 AM
RE: Am i atheist?
(13-12-2014 07:01 AM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  
(13-12-2014 06:46 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  No prob. If you're not comfortable that's fine I was actually just curious because it's not often you see someone who absolutely believes in an afterlife but not a diety. I understand totally.

Yeah, i'm sure it is rare but honestly i think it's because of how you interpret the afterlife everyone has a different way or reason for thinking or believing in something weather it's no god or a god. Or no after life or a afterlife.
And so somethings sound nuts, other things don't. but I've noticed with many people
if you can't show them then why even speak about it?
it's only my viewpoint i can't give you my life and say live it.

Why do you believe in an afterlife? There is no evidence of one, there is no mechanism for the existence of 'self' without a functioning brain.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-12-2014, 08:36 AM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2014 08:52 AM by Free.)
RE: Am i atheist?
(13-12-2014 03:18 AM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  Iv'e never once believed in Adam or eve not even for a split second. I always looked into the universe for my answer. Iv'e only ever held on to the fear of hell because of it being drilled into my head as a child. Iv'e questioned the idea of god, but all in all i never believed in anything inside of the bible it's self. Not even the story's about a ark, the moment i read about evolution i connected and had confidence. Without putting my belief in spirits inside of everything if i push "Hold" would i honestly be considered an atheist? Please i only ask for nobody to jump on me this is my personal beliefs and i'm just being curious as it's my nature and always has been. I haven't ever really thought about the entire thing other then the idea of a god and now, yeah now i'm really wondering. Consider

Note: I wasn't sure what form this should be put in so i just put it here.

You will not recall the day you were born. None of us ever do.

But on that day you came into the world as innocent as humanly possible. You believed in absolutely nothing, because you did not know anything other than being aware of yourself.

My point is that you were born with no beliefs, and that is your most natural position. It is the way you were naturally born.

An atheist has no beliefs in any gods, and when you were born you also had no beliefs in any gods.

You were born to have no beliefs in any gods; aka an atheist.

Welcome home to the realm of reason.

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