Am i atheist?
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16-12-2014, 04:56 AM
RE: Am i atheist?
(13-12-2014 06:19 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(13-12-2014 05:33 AM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  I get somethings of what you're saying don't get me wrong however i can't put together what you mean by belief, not knowledge.

I can understand why you might have trouble getting what I mean there.

Unfortunately, I am far from eloquent enough to create what I feel would do justice as a description and explanation.... But that wont stop me from bumbling about anyway.

Theism dictates the stance of your belief; you do (theist) or you do not (atheist) believe in god.
Gnosticism dictates your stance on knowledge (what you think you know): You have knowledge (Gnostic) or you don't have knowledge (agnostic).

In this way, they are distinct 'entities' for consideration.
Your stance on both inform your ultimate position.

However, we can ascertain your immediate 'title' on either of the 'Stances" independently with the same basic 'yes/no' question I asked you previously, as the answer will inform us, in this instance whether you are an atheist or a theist based purely on the yes or no. Of course, this requires you to separate out all other thinking and answer the question as it is.

Of course, if you are having more trouble, just follow the chart. It works in the same way as my dichotomy, it just includes the 'knowledge' stance, and is therefore a tad more 'in depth'.
[Image: Agnostic%2Bv%2BGnostic%2Bv%2BAtheist%2Bv%2BTheist.png]

I have a even more simplified version for determining it:
Ask: Is there, or has there ever been, a deity or deities?
Answers:
Gnostic Atheist: No
Gnostic Theist: Yes
Agnostic Atheist: Probably Not
Agnostic Theist: Probably
Neo-Agnostic: Maybe (with a judge of equal-ish or indeterminate probability)
Tyson Agnostic: I Don't Know and I Don't Care

I have heard people say that Neo-Agnostics (which one may also call a Questioning Agnostics, or a Q-Agnostics) and Tyson Agnostics count as atheists because they don't believe in a god either... I think this point is debatable (because I find it the same debate as "is zero a positive or negative number?") but worth mentioning.

Knights who say NI!
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16-12-2014, 05:23 AM
RE: Am i atheist?
(16-12-2014 04:56 AM)MPythonGirl Wrote:  
(13-12-2014 06:19 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  I can understand why you might have trouble getting what I mean there.

Unfortunately, I am far from eloquent enough to create what I feel would do justice as a description and explanation.... But that wont stop me from bumbling about anyway.

Theism dictates the stance of your belief; you do (theist) or you do not (atheist) believe in god.
Gnosticism dictates your stance on knowledge (what you think you know): You have knowledge (Gnostic) or you don't have knowledge (agnostic).

In this way, they are distinct 'entities' for consideration.
Your stance on both inform your ultimate position.

However, we can ascertain your immediate 'title' on either of the 'Stances" independently with the same basic 'yes/no' question I asked you previously, as the answer will inform us, in this instance whether you are an atheist or a theist based purely on the yes or no. Of course, this requires you to separate out all other thinking and answer the question as it is.

Of course, if you are having more trouble, just follow the chart. It works in the same way as my dichotomy, it just includes the 'knowledge' stance, and is therefore a tad more 'in depth'.
[Image: Agnostic%2Bv%2BGnostic%2Bv%2BAtheist%2Bv%2BTheist.png]

I have a even more simplified version for determining it:
Ask: Is there, or has there ever been, a deity or deities?
Answers:
Gnostic Atheist: No
Gnostic Theist: Yes
Agnostic Atheist: Probably Not
Agnostic Theist: Probably
Neo-Agnostic: Maybe (with a judge of equal-ish or indeterminate probability)
Tyson Agnostic: I Don't Know and I Don't Care

I have heard people say that Neo-Agnostics (which one may also call a Questioning Agnostics, or a Q-Agnostics) and Tyson Agnostics count as atheists because they don't believe in a god either... I think this point is debatable (because I find it the same debate as "is zero a positive or negative number?") but worth mentioning.

Knights who say NI!

Personally, I'd replace "Tyson Agnostic" with "Apatheist". Seems like much the same thing.

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16-12-2014, 06:09 AM
RE: Am i atheist?
(16-12-2014 05:23 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Personally, I'd replace "Tyson Agnostic" with "Apatheist". Seems like much the same thing.

A more descriptive term would be "Apathetic Agnostic." I use the term "Tyson Agnostic" because it is a simplified version of why Neil DeGrasse Tyson calls himself an Agnostic. If they wish to call themselves Agnostic, I won't take it away from them, especially when true by the definition.

Words get their meaning from how people use them, because there is no "absolute truth" of their definition. The working definition of agnostic is someone who believes God has not been proven. The oldest definition is the belief that God has-not-and-may/will-never-be proven. I uphold that all the terms in my list that fall under agnostic fall under sub-categories of at least the working definition.

I like using consistent logic, so I think if I call someone who identifies as an Agnostic something other than Agnostic, then I have to accept "evolutionist" as a real word (I refuse to do so). But that's just my opinion, feel free to counter.

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16-12-2014, 06:46 AM
RE: Am i atheist?
(13-12-2014 03:18 AM)Autumnflowers Wrote:  Iv'e never once believed in Adam or eve not even for a split second. I always looked into the universe for my answer. Iv'e only ever held on to the fear of hell because of it being drilled into my head as a child. Iv'e questioned the idea of god, but all in all i never believed in anything inside of the bible it's self. Not even the story's about a ark, the moment i read about evolution i connected and had confidence. Without putting my belief in spirits inside of everything if i push "Hold" would i honestly be considered an atheist? Please i only ask for nobody to jump on me this is my personal beliefs and i'm just being curious as it's my nature and always has been. I haven't ever really thought about the entire thing other then the idea of a god and now, yeah now i'm really wondering. Consider

Note: I wasn't sure what form this should be put in so i just put it here.

"Atheist" strictly refers to all God or gods as claims. But I have run into atheists who hold other claims I find absurd. I would say if you hold some sort of claim in "spirits" or even modern si fi woo that the universe itself is a living thing, to me that is just as absurd.

There is nothing running "all this". It is no more deliberately caused than you believe that Poseidon is the cause of hurricanes or Thor is the cause of lightening. And as far as "spirits" there is no such thing. You are nothing more than your brain in motion. Once your brain dies you die. No different than if you smashed your computer into pieces it would no longer function.

It is nothing to be frightened of nor is it fatalistic to accept that reality. It would be silly to be frightened of your nothingness prior to your birth, so why would not existing after you die be any more frightening? Our cycle is no different than that of a tree or even the sun. Those things die too.

I still find life amazing, I still have my ups and downs. I still have emotions and feel pain. I still feel love of family and my pets. I simply don't get frightened of knowing I am finite.

So are you an "atheist"? That is up to you to say. But if you don't educate yourself I'd say you are just as capable as a theist for falling for absurd claims, but simply other absurd claims.

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