Amazing Krauss Article on Deathbed Conversaion Claims
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06-06-2016, 09:07 PM
Amazing Krauss Article on Deathbed Conversaion Claims
All worth a read, but what made me cite this article is the following paragraph by Krauss:

In the end, what evangelists don’t recognize is that atheism is not a belief system like Christianity, from which one might defect after hearing some arguments or having a few sombre conversations. It is, instead, simply a rational decision not to accept the existence of God without evidence. As wise thinkers, including Laplace, Hume, Sagan, and Hitchens, have often said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It’s hard to imagine a more extraordinary claim than that some hidden intelligence created a universe of more than a hundred billion galaxies, each containing more than a hundred billion stars, and then waited more than 13.7 billion years until a planet in a remote corner of a single galaxy evolved an atmosphere sufficiently oxygenated to support life, only to then reveal his existence to an assortment of violent tribal groups before disappearing again.

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture...mod-latest

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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07-06-2016, 12:52 AM
RE: Amazing Krauss Article on Deathbed Conversaion Claims
Christians - especially the priests who need their guhooloog heads kicked in - tend to interpret atheism as a spiteful rebellion against God - IOW the atheist knows that God exists, (s)he just says that God doesn't exist to try and *hurt* God and the church, because reasons - sometimes good reasons, like the poor atheist didn't understand God's plan because someone close to them died and they got angry, sometimes bad reasons, because the evil atheist was deluded by the devil and smoked pot. According to this narrative, the atheist *actually* knows that God exists, he just says not to try and lead others astray.

So now when it comes time for the atheist to die, if (s)he really didn't think God existed then he must go peacefully and unafraid (as in fact many people do, but fuck anyone could be a little anti when facing ye final curtain call). But if he was just pretending then of course there's the out - God will forgive if I just acknowledge him at the last minute! So the mythology needs atheists who lost their nerve and acknowledged God in their final moments, so that the Christians can believe the story that atheists are just pretending not to believe in God.

It even works when the stories are proven false. "Of course Hitchens probably didn't - that's just wishful thinking - but I remember Uncle Fred!" The feeling is that if there are *enough* of the stories at least *some* of them are true. And anyway that person who proved the story false is a servant of Satan and is probably lying themselves.

Religion is fucking transparent. Dodgy

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-06-2016, 05:09 AM
RE: Amazing Krauss Article on Deathbed Conversaion Claims
It's a propagandist trope, there's also the kid that stands up in class to teach his teacher about how god is real. (Einstein as a child is usually used for this one)

A bunch of goofy tropes trying to make their religion sound more credible than it is.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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07-06-2016, 05:33 AM
RE: Amazing Krauss Article on Deathbed Conversaion Claims
(07-06-2016 12:52 AM)morondog Wrote:  So the mythology needs atheists who lost their nerve and acknowledged God in their final moments, so that the Christians can believe the story that atheists are just pretending not to believe in God.

I think that's true, but it can also be used to say that god opened their eyes at the end and they saw the truth. What they ignore is that the fact that the person was facing death and likely not thinking rationally due to illness and/or fear means that any epiphanies they have under those conditions are meaningless. Even if every atheist became a theist moments before death it would not be a reason to believe, just a phenomenon to be investigated.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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09-06-2016, 10:45 AM
RE: Amazing Krauss Article on Deathbed Conversaion Claims
(06-06-2016 09:07 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  All worth a read, but what made me cite this article is the following paragraph by Krauss:

In the end, what evangelists don’t recognize is that atheism is not a belief system like Christianity, from which one might defect after hearing some arguments or having a few sombre conversations. It is, instead, simply a rational decision not to accept the existence of God without evidence. As wise thinkers, including Laplace, Hume, Sagan, and Hitchens, have often said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It’s hard to imagine a more extraordinary claim than that some hidden intelligence created a universe of more than a hundred billion galaxies, each containing more than a hundred billion stars, and then waited more than 13.7 billion years until a planet in a remote corner of a single galaxy evolved an atmosphere sufficiently oxygenated to support life, only to then reveal his existence to an assortment of violent tribal groups before disappearing again.

That's a very nice way to sum up when I say "It just looks like Hebrew mythology, to me". It isn't, strictly speaking impossible. That's not really the point. Leprechauns are technically possible. It just doesn't seem very likely.
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