Amazon Refugee Roll Call
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26-02-2017, 01:49 AM
RE: Amazon Refugee Roll Call
(25-02-2017 08:11 PM)DLJ Wrote:  This implies that you believe in an in-theory god rather than an in-practice god.

It also indicates not just determinism but fatalism.

Life does change based on what we think/believe.
Meh. These are words that I have to Google.

determinism
noun
1. the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. Some philosophers have taken determinism to imply that individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions.


fatalism
noun
1. the belief that all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.


Neither of these are things that I believe. I believe more or less that mankind gets the fate (good or bad) that mankind creates. Yes, I do agree that life changes based on what we believe, but those changes are only because of the actions we take and not any kind of action taken against us because of those beliefs.

(25-02-2017 08:11 PM)DLJ Wrote:  That's called neurosis.

I’m plenty neurotic for many reasons unrelated to my religious beliefs. –But you knew that already. Wink
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26-02-2017, 06:33 AM
RE: Amazon Refugee Roll Call
(26-02-2017 01:49 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I believe more or less that mankind gets the fate (good or bad) that mankind creates. Yes, I do agree that life changes based on what we believe, but those changes are only because of the actions we take and not any kind of action taken against us because of those beliefs.

So you don't believe in natural evils which dominate our lives in various ways, like diseases, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornados, hurricanes, impoverished geographies, or even our own over-simplified default settings? Even our attempts to make this planet good for ourselves seem to be leading to climate change and environmental disruption.
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26-02-2017, 09:23 AM
RE: Amazon Refugee Roll Call
(26-02-2017 06:33 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(26-02-2017 01:49 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I believe more or less that mankind gets the fate (good or bad) that mankind creates. Yes, I do agree that life changes based on what we believe, but those changes are only because of the actions we take and not any kind of action taken against us because of those beliefs.

So you don't believe in natural evils which dominate our lives in various ways, like diseases, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornados, hurricanes, impoverished geographies, or even our own over-simplified default settings? Even our attempts to make this planet good for ourselves seem to be leading to climate change and environmental disruption.

I believe sucky things happen (I can see these things with my own two eyes) but I don't believe sucky things are evil. -Like they've been released specifically to wreak havoc or punish us. I also believe that we have the power to stop things like disease and natural disaster through applied sciences, and that it's up to us to take control of our own environment.
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26-02-2017, 09:55 AM
RE: Amazon Refugee Roll Call
(26-02-2017 09:23 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I believe sucky things happen (I can see these things with my own two eyes) but I don't believe sucky things are evil. -Like they've been released specifically to wreak havoc or punish us. I also believe that we have the power to stop things like disease and natural disaster through applied sciences, and that it's up to us to take control of our own environment.

So you don't believe in an all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing God? If there exists a God in control of natural events, then the harm they cause are his fault -- thus natural evils.

But I do agree with you that if no such God exists, such events could not be called "evil".
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26-02-2017, 10:34 AM
RE: Amazon Refugee Roll Call
(26-02-2017 09:55 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(26-02-2017 09:23 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I believe sucky things happen (I can see these things with my own two eyes) but I don't believe sucky things are evil. -Like they've been released specifically to wreak havoc or punish us. I also believe that we have the power to stop things like disease and natural disaster through applied sciences, and that it's up to us to take control of our own environment.

So you don't believe in an all-good, all-powerful, all-knowing God? If there exists a God in control of natural events, then the harm they cause are his fault -- thus natural evils.

But I do agree with you that if no such God exists, such events could not be called "evil".

It might be relevant to mention that I'm a Jew, not a Christian.

I believe in an all-knowing and all powerful G-d, but but in Judaism, G-d is not omni-benevolent and is not going to do fuzzy things for you just because you want them. G-d is good and evil. If a tornado hits, it's just a natural event that came about because the weather system sometimes creates conditions favorable to tornadoes. Weather isn't evil. But maybe if you're a theist you see it as a sign to stop stealing stuff from your local department store, in which case, the tornado is serving as punishment for bad acts. It's not evil.

Maybe your house gets destroyed or your family member dies in the storm. That sucks, but it's still not evil. We have the power to manipulate our own environment so stop sitting around and begging for divine intervention. Go get a degree in something awesome and learn to control the weather. Judaism teaches that we have that authority.
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26-02-2017, 11:06 AM
RE: Amazon Refugee Roll Call
(26-02-2017 10:34 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Go get a degree in something awesome and learn to control the weather.
Or your oven, so you don't have to touch it on a Sunday. That's probably my favorite part of modern-day Judaism, not that you believe any of that superstitious "L.I.T.E.R.A.L.L.Y. no work on the sabbath" crap, Aliza Laugh out load

Oh shit, it's Sunday, and my heart is beating. My body is expending energy. That's the mathematical definition of work. Gasp
Guess I'd better induce a coma, just in case.

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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26-02-2017, 11:13 AM
RE: Amazon Refugee Roll Call
(26-02-2017 11:06 AM)cactus Wrote:  
(26-02-2017 10:34 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Go get a degree in something awesome and learn to control the weather.
Or your oven, so you don't have to touch it on a Sunday. That's probably my favorite part of modern-day Judaism, not that you believe any of that superstitious "L.I.T.E.R.A.L.L.Y. no work on the sabbath" crap, Aliza Laugh out load

Oh shit, it's Sunday, and my heart is beating. My body is expending energy. That's the mathematical definition of work. Gasp
Guess I'd better induce a coma, just in case.

Heart is still beating though, also the electrical impulses in the brain are still firing you kinda need to be dead not to do work on the Sabbath Tongue
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26-02-2017, 11:16 AM
RE: Amazon Refugee Roll Call
(26-02-2017 11:13 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Heart is still beating though, also the electrical impulses in the brain are still firing you kinda need to be dead not to do work on the Sabbath Tongue

Damn, I was so close Sad

If we came from dust, then why is there still dust?
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26-02-2017, 11:28 AM (This post was last modified: 26-02-2017 11:32 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Amazon Refugee Roll Call
(26-02-2017 10:34 AM)Aliza Wrote:  It might be relevant to mention that I'm a Jew, not a Christian.

I believe in an all-knowing and all powerful G-d, but but in Judaism, G-d is not omni-benevolent and is not going to do fuzzy things for you just because you want them. G-d is good and evil.

I gathered you were of Jewish background from your use of "G-d", though I didn't assume you necessarily held common Jewish beliefs. I am familiar with Christian and Islamic ideas of God, but not so much with Jewish ideas. I also gather from your answers that you don't see God as all-powerful either, since you don't hold him responsible for natural disasters. Do you see God as all-knowing? How do Jews typically see the afterlife? Do you see God as worthy of worship, and, if so, why? Christian theologians typically believe God must be all-good and all-powerful as well as all-knowing to be worthy of worship.
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26-02-2017, 12:54 PM
RE: Amazon Refugee Roll Call
(26-02-2017 11:06 AM)cactus Wrote:  
(26-02-2017 10:34 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Go get a degree in something awesome and learn to control the weather.
Or your oven, so you don't have to touch it on a Sunday. That's probably my favorite part of modern-day Judaism, not that you believe any of that superstitious "L.I.T.E.R.A.L.L.Y. no work on the sabbath" crap, Aliza Laugh out load

Oh shit, it's Sunday, and my heart is beating. My body is expending energy. That's the mathematical definition of work. Gasp
Guess I'd better induce a coma, just in case.

I think you meant Friday night to Saturday night. Sunday is the first day of the work week for us. Wink

And just so you know, work for us isn't defined the same as you're thinking. I'll save that for another thread, though.
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