America and military criticism
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16-01-2014, 07:30 PM
America and military criticism


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24-12-2014, 05:03 AM
RE: America and military criticism
America is spending its budgets on fake wars.-
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26-12-2014, 10:46 AM
RE: America and military criticism
I can't see the video...care to summarize?

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
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26-12-2014, 12:49 PM
RE: America and military criticism
Soldiers fight for each other. When they are in the middle of a mission there is nothing more important. The big picture escapes them.

Iraq is in the shitter. It was always going to be in the shitter as soon as we pulled out. Over 4,000 men died in Iraq and who knows how many were maimed and essentially for nothing. It was a waste of blood and treasure and has made the situation far worse than anything Saddam Hussein ever did.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/rand-...t-blunder/


And as soon as we turn over Afghanistan to the Afghans it is going to go down the shitter, too.

The problem is that we never fucking learn.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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26-12-2014, 01:02 PM
RE: America and military criticism
OK, so he's made the most basic of schoolboy errors in interviewing a soldier, especially ex-Special Forces.

The basic argument is that war is senseless, so sending our soldiers to die is senseless. This argument is often wheeled out by well-meaning, but ill informed and (yes) insensitive people who fail to see it from the soldier's side.

Many soldiers I know, especially those who have seen active service, are very committed to doing their duty. They see they're standing up for their country and our way of life. They usually ask only that they are allowed to do their duty, for a just cause and with the right backing and equipment. In the process they see people they consider to be brothers die.

I had a wonderful short exchange with a Canadian WW2 vet who was saying, basically, "yes, I went to war so you could all debate football and goof off". Others on that forum didn't see it.

So, for a solider to then be told that he suffered and saw his friends dying for no reason whatsoever is to attack the fundamental raison d'etre of the solider. It also reduces the sacrifice to farce.

All of this turns the conventional wisdom of many anti-war proponents on its head. What the solider wants is to know they did not sacrifice for nothing. I personally think they have a point.

That's why whilst I see many wars (GW2 for example) as being needless and ill-thought out, I see little fault in the solider executing his duty. The onus is on us, the voters, to ensure we don't send our soldiers out for unworthy causes. And if we fail and they do, that they have our unconditional support.

After all, they put their life on the line for us.

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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26-12-2014, 01:05 PM
RE: America and military criticism
(26-12-2014 12:49 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Soldiers fight for each other. When they are in the middle of a mission there is nothing more important. The big picture escapes them.

Sorry, but that is plain patronising of all soldiers. Would you say that to a veteran's face?

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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26-12-2014, 01:46 PM
RE: America and military criticism
(26-12-2014 01:05 PM)gofish! Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 12:49 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Soldiers fight for each other. When they are in the middle of a mission there is nothing more important. The big picture escapes them.

Sorry, but that is plain patronising of all soldiers. Would you say that to a veteran's face?

That is what everyone I know who severed in any military has said. When the bullets are flying you are fighting for your buddies in the trench beside you not for any high reason.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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26-12-2014, 02:02 PM (This post was last modified: 26-12-2014 02:06 PM by yakherder.)
RE: America and military criticism
We don't fit into neat generalizations any more than people in any other group. I joined because I barely feel like I have a pulse most of the time. The mere thought of a successful stereotypical career makes me feel like jumping off a cliff. I need to be pushing my limits to feel alive, and I have no plans of making it to retirement. That's not to say it won't happen, but I'm not really counting on it. Some day, some guy in some random 3rd world country in some random future warzone is gonna either get lucky or see me make a mistake and capitalize on it. That's just how it is.

Other people I've served with have reasons ranging from college money to patriotism.

I personally don't give a damn what naive interviewers say. I recognize that not everyone sees the world through the same lenses, and I don't need his or anyone else's approval.

That said, yeah we do tend to form something of a family like bond. The concept has been overused in media so I won't expand on it. But even the atheists I play video games with as acquaintances in my free time will never be as close to me as the rednecks I've served with, whatever their reasons may be.

'Murican Canadian
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26-12-2014, 03:44 PM
RE: America and military criticism
(26-12-2014 01:46 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 01:05 PM)gofish! Wrote:  Sorry, but that is plain patronising of all soldiers. Would you say that to a veteran's face?

That is what everyone I know who severed in any military has said. When the bullets are flying you are fighting for your buddies in the trench beside you not for any high reason.

Perhaps I should have been more specific. The first two sentences are true. The third is patronising. After all, what use is the "big picture" for a soldier in a firefight?

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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26-12-2014, 06:08 PM
RE: America and military criticism
(26-12-2014 01:05 PM)gofish! Wrote:  
(26-12-2014 12:49 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Soldiers fight for each other. When they are in the middle of a mission there is nothing more important. The big picture escapes them.

Sorry, but that is plain patronising of all soldiers. Would you say that to a veteran's face?

My father, who fought at Anzio, told that to me. I never forgot it.


Quote:After all, what use is the "big picture" for a soldier in a firefight?

Getting out of the firefight.

No one asks the rank and file for their opinion of the msssion. You want to Support Our Troops? Stop sending them to die for nothing.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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