America has no culture?
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09-11-2014, 04:40 AM
RE: America has no culture?
(08-11-2014 07:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  I don't think you are even close - the term 'jeans' may derive from 'Genoa', but blue jeans are quintessentially American. The fabric is denim (from the French serge de Nîmes), the garment was created by Jacob Davis and Levi Strauss in 1873.

"In 1872, Davis wrote to Strauss asking to partner with him to patent and sell clothing reinforced with rivet. The copper rivets were to reinforce the points of stress, such as pocket corners and at the bottom of the button fly. Levi accepted Davis's offer, and the two men received US patent No. 139,121 for an "Improvement in Fastening Pocket-Openings" on 20 May 1873."

Go read the parts that appear before the quote you posted, from the same page, if it's the same page I am thinking about lol they patented a new version, not the first ever.

It's not Denim or Genoa Jeans, they both existed and they were two different fabrics. Genoa was then a naval power and a producer of this fabric. According to what we know, Genoa was already producing this and then France started producing it as well, because they were competing. But jeans, as clothing, were used by the working class in Italy already by the 16th/17th century. Most likely they didn't look like the jeans we all know, but they were used in clothing.

Then they were modified by Strauss and Davis (I think using denim fabric), in 1873, because apparently they were not comfortable enough for miners while also adding other features like reinforcing them, during the Gold Rush. Then, by the 1950s, they became extremely popular in the US, because they were featured in movies, especially in westerns.

(08-11-2014 08:18 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  I've been watchin the jean debate and giggling as well Laughat

Ahah is it funny? Tongue

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09-11-2014, 05:00 AM
RE: America has no culture?
(08-11-2014 08:42 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(08-11-2014 06:11 PM)Stuffed_Assumption_Meringue Wrote:  Edit: This is apparently wrong as DanceForTwo said something different on the second page. I'm kinda dumb.
Jazz is Swing mixed with The Blues. The Blues was adapted from slave working songs that were adapted from prayers. Swing in it's natal form was upbeat dance music.

Swing is an offshoot of jazz mixed with blues. Swing popularized in the 30s and 40s, but Jazz had been around longer and decades before that.

Early jazz wasn't really dance music at all, which is why swing became so popular.
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09-11-2014, 07:30 AM
RE: America has no culture?
(09-11-2014 04:40 AM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  
(08-11-2014 07:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  I don't think you are even close - the term 'jeans' may derive from 'Genoa', but blue jeans are quintessentially American. The fabric is denim (from the French serge de Nîmes), the garment was created by Jacob Davis and Levi Strauss in 1873.

"In 1872, Davis wrote to Strauss asking to partner with him to patent and sell clothing reinforced with rivet. The copper rivets were to reinforce the points of stress, such as pocket corners and at the bottom of the button fly. Levi accepted Davis's offer, and the two men received US patent No. 139,121 for an "Improvement in Fastening Pocket-Openings" on 20 May 1873."

Go read the parts that appear before the quote you posted, from the same page, if it's the same page I am thinking about lol they patented a new version, not the first ever.

It's not Denim or Genoa Jeans, they both existed and they were two different fabrics. Genoa was then a naval power and a producer of this fabric. According to what we know, Genoa was already producing this and then France started producing it as well, because they were competing. But jeans, as clothing, were used by the working class in Italy already by the 16th/17th century. Most likely they didn't look like the jeans we all know, but they were used in clothing.

Then they were modified by Strauss and Davis (I think using denim fabric), in 1873, because apparently they were not comfortable enough for miners while also adding other features like reinforcing them, during the Gold Rush. Then, by the 1950s, they became extremely popular in the US, because they were featured in movies, especially in westerns.

(08-11-2014 08:18 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  I've been watchin the jean debate and giggling as well Laughat

Ahah is it funny? Tongue

It's the garment, not the fabric. Strauss and Davis created the garment known as jeans.

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09-11-2014, 08:15 AM
RE: America has no culture?
(09-11-2014 07:30 AM)Chas Wrote:  It's the garment, not the fabric. Strauss and Davis created the garment known as jeans.

No, they improved an already existing garment with copper rivets, in order to strengthen it, and patented that one. Then that garment became famous, yes.

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09-11-2014, 08:25 AM
RE: America has no culture?
(09-11-2014 08:15 AM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  
(09-11-2014 07:30 AM)Chas Wrote:  It's the garment, not the fabric. Strauss and Davis created the garment known as jeans.

No, they improved an already existing garment with copper rivets, in order to strengthen it, and patented that one. Then that garment became famous, yes.

You said "But jeans, as clothing, were used by the working class in Italy already by the 16th/17th century. Most likely they didn't look like the jeans we all know, but they were used in clothing."

That a fabric that was vaguely like denim was used in clothing that was vaguely like trousers is a weak argument.

Blue jeans are an American invention.

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09-11-2014, 08:40 AM (This post was last modified: 09-11-2014 09:29 AM by The Polyglot Atheist.)
RE: America has no culture?
(09-11-2014 08:25 AM)Chas Wrote:  You said "But jeans, as clothing, were used by the working class in Italy already by the 16th/17th century. Most likely they didn't look like the jeans we all know, but they were used in clothing."

That a fabric that was vaguely like denim was used in clothing that was vaguely like trousers is a weak argument.

Blue jeans are an American invention.

Vaguely according to whom? If you can't prove what you're claiming, then don't claim it. Strauss and Davis improved an existing garment.

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09-11-2014, 08:44 AM
RE: America has no culture?
(08-11-2014 01:58 PM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  Drunkin, I hope I didn't sound antagonizing, I wasn't objecting to your post but rather expanding on it. ^^

No worries. New info is always a good thing!
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09-11-2014, 08:48 AM
RE: America has no culture?
Also, lovin' jesus. Don't forget lovin' jesus.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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09-11-2014, 08:50 AM
RE: America has no culture?
(08-11-2014 03:19 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(08-11-2014 09:11 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  I was told today that the U.S. Has no culture and at first glance many might agree. But what is a culture if not the foods people eat,the clothes they wear, the stories they tell each other and the music they listen too?
I would argue that not only do America have a culture but they have probably the most influential culture in the world!
Almost everyone watches Hollywood movies (for better or for worse). American music is everywhere. American brands and styles have infiltrated the world. Who doesn't wear blue jeans? And food? How many countries don't have a McDonalds?
Some of the hoity-toity folks may not appreciate or recognize American culture and may even hate it but to deny its existance is frankly idiotic!
So the next time (if you're not American) you're scarfing down a Big Mac in your blue jeans while listening to the latest pop star with the walking dead on mute ask yourself if this is your culture.

Only thing I disagree with is that america is the most influential culture. We are not influential because we just are, america is just a big bully. Kids don't do what the bully does because they think its cool, they do it so they don't get there asses kicked.
I doubt America will kick anyone's ass for not watching Die hard or listening to Billie Holliday...
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09-11-2014, 08:53 AM
RE: America has no culture?
Die hard is awesome! Gotta love Bruce Willis. Big Grin

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