An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
26-06-2017, 08:41 AM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(26-06-2017 08:33 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(26-06-2017 08:19 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Being on this forum has been fascinating for me. I learned a lot. I genuinely mean it. I carefully read through all you guys had to say. I'm admitting that I'm and idiot, isn't it a good progress for an idiot? I honestly didn't thought of my self as in idiot before my posts in this thread. I just want to learn why is it bad to be idiot. That's all.

Are you at all capable of being honest or do you actually believe the crap that comes out of your mouth?

You have been nothing but disingenuous (and often passive-aggressive) here, and you don't appear to have learnt anything. The fake humbleness may work with your god (after all, he's a figment of your imagination so he can be anything you want him to be) but you're not fooling anyone else.
Quote:You have been nothing but disingenuous (and often passive-aggressive) here
You are somehow right. This naturally happens when you want to defend a position which cannot be defended. Which was something I wanted to do at some points. I'm sorry about it. But I'm no longer defending anything that I have said and I hope you no longer perceive dishonesty and passive-agressiveness in my posts. I'm merely asking about your thoughts to know what's so special about being non-idiot? I know it might seem weird, but can't you look at it as an "honest" question?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-06-2017, 09:00 AM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(26-06-2017 06:49 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Guys,

I have a question from you. I realize that I and most likely all other theists are idiots.
Is this what you think of yourself and "most likely all other theists"?
Or ...
Nosferatu323, are you just back-handedly stating that you think you know that all atheists and/or non-theists think exactly alike and are "most likely" disrespectful enough to consider all theists to be idiots?

If so, you have come into someone's house and are trying to "politely" tell them they are idiots.
Strike one.

(26-06-2017 06:49 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  But some questions remain for me:

Please provide your "scientific evidences" that support the below propositions

- Being non-idiot is good in itself
- Being non-idiot is useful in itself
- Being non-idiot is necessary in itself
- Being non-idiot preferable to being happy and/or content and/or peaceful and/or harmless and/or any other human quality in any situation and for any human being.

Same thing, Nosferatu323.
Once again, are you also back-handedly stating that being atheist/non-theist is not good, useful, necessary, and to be so means not being happy, content, peaceful, harmless, or any other human quality in any situation?
If so, strike two.
Wow - you are well on your way to presenting yourself as just the average, run-or-the-mill, narrow minded, trollish asshole.

(26-06-2017 06:49 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Also,
- In case there are some certain conditions under which being non-idiot is preferable, please specify these conditions.

Why do you insist others refer to you, and I suppose all other theists as idiots? Do you have no self respect or respect for others who might be theist? We do have a few theists who hang out here.

(26-06-2017 06:49 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Maybe the state of non-idiot is just the way you define your own happiness?
others define their own happiness differently? ha? What's your thoughts on this?

I have to consider you might be trying to ask some genuine questions in this post but, the overall tone is so patronizing that I find it not worth the trouble of addressing any of it seriously.

Too bad - you might have learned something here.

Instead, as I said previously, you have come into someone's house and have advised them that in your opinion, they are:
idiots
not good
not useful
not necessary
not happy and/or content
not peaceful
are harmful
have no human qualities

Wow. No wonder you have no self respect. I don't think I would put other theists in the same boat with you.

Personally, I would never walk into your "church" and display such behavior. What do you think would happen if I did?

Maybe Nosferatu323, if you could stop being a patronizing asshole and just be a regular person, you might get a decent conversation going here.

While I can't speak to what theists like or don't like about reality, I can say that most non-theists don't like it when someone pretends and calls it reality.

Your intentions for being here are your problem.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like kim's post
26-06-2017, 09:05 AM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
Thanks, Kimmie, for having the patience to put into words what I lost the patience to even try anymore (in PM's as well, mind you!)

[Image: 1rj99e.jpg]

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Vera's post
26-06-2017, 09:10 AM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(26-06-2017 07:46 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(26-06-2017 07:23 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  I'm not 100% sure on what you're trying to say here but I think you generally mean: "find me evidence to dis-proove that being stupid is ok?"

Generally speaking, and in my opinion only, you don't NEED to be smart/clever or anything like that. In fact, its arguable that the idiots of the world are generally more happy that those who actually understand what's going on.

I would only say you should be trying to better yourself, by understanding as much as you can, [Of Life, The World, The solar system, everything etc] so you understand/can appreciate a little bit more.

Am I happy 100% of the time? No I'm not. But that's life for you, it's not supposed to be all roses. I can also handle like 99% of any situation with control/respect for others/prior knowledge of various things. And it's that which is the difference between: running around screaming in a burning building and knowing what to do when an emergency strikes.

Being a "non-idiot" is useful in many ways, the most important one being survival. Ever heard of the Darwin Awards? You should check it out; stupid people getting them selves killed for being dumb.

That being said, there are enough idiots in the world to facilitate other idiots, so just say "fuck it" and do whatever you like.

I'd rather be clued up on any/all things I can potentially wrap my mind around just for the mere sake of knowing, that sitting in my own shit feeling happy for reasons I don't fully know, because "god" or "some gods" tell me to do something/my life means something to said deity(s).

Quote:Being a "non-idiot" is useful in many ways, the most important one being survival
While survival is a shared value in many individuals happiness, but there are actaully many instances that the happiness seems to be not relying on survival. People who suicide? It can be an evidence for someone who has based his/her happiness on survival. I'm not sure if I have. I would be happily get killed to defend my family for example.

Quote:I would only say you should be trying to better yourself, by understanding as much as you can, [Of Life, The World, The solar system, everything etc] so you understand/can appreciate a little bit more.
You are again assuming appreciation is something essential for being happy. Maybe I need non of those knowledge and appreciation to be happy. Is it something objectively wrong with it?
I'm only going off of My opinion of what makes me happy.

Commiting suicide would not make me, nor anybody else happy, and trust me when I say I'm on the list of people who have thought about it.

I'm not 100% sure you understand what happiness even is, if thats what you think happiness is. IE "happily get killed defending your family", its a questionable one. For example, I would protect my family to the death as well, but would that make me "happy", probably not as I'd be dead. I'd feel better that I'd, hopfully, saved their lives but I would also presume that is a natural instinct, as such why wild animals will protect their young.

Appreciation and understanding of things DOES make ME happy at least, because I then KNOW how things work. Many other things make me happy, such as pro wrestling and baseball, and terrible 90's-2000's nu metal music, but it's all personal.

I did mention before, you don't NEED this to be happy, but for me as a person, and having come so far from officially being "dumb" at one point (long story, couldn't write/spell/articulate my thoughts as a kid, was lowest scoring in tests etc etc), and now being able to read at such an "advanced" level and understand things makes me genuinely want to weep with joy. Understanding things now that I could not or even would not grasp mentally some 20 years ago, to me at least, blows the doors off anything that you could ever tell me when I was a big ole dummy.

I say these things as a living example of "educate and better yourself, and you will feel better". I am happy that I have a good job, to provide for my wife/child, to partake in my interests, to READ books all day long if I want to, because I am an educated man.

If I was still an idiot, I dare say I'd be alone, cold and hungry and probably dead by now.

Also: please think before you type. People committing suicide do so because they are at the bottom of a dark dark barrel, and see no other way back to the top. Doing it doesn't make them "happy". Again, I've been there, many a time, and with help from others decided not to go down that route, and I'm happy NOW I'm healthy and have things to live for. Back then I was a mess.

I don't want Fop, goddamn it! I'm a Dapper Dan man!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like OakTree500's post
26-06-2017, 09:33 AM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(26-06-2017 09:00 AM)kim Wrote:  
(26-06-2017 06:49 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Guys,

I have a question from you. I realize that I and most likely all other theists are idiots.
Is this what you think of yourself and "most likely all other theists"?
Or ...
Nosferatu323, are you just back-handedly stating that you think you know that all atheists and/or non-theists think exactly alike and are "most likely" disrespectful enough to consider all theists to be idiots?

If so, you have come into someone's house and are trying to "politely" tell them they are idiots.
Strike one.

(26-06-2017 06:49 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  But some questions remain for me:

Please provide your "scientific evidences" that support the below propositions

- Being non-idiot is good in itself
- Being non-idiot is useful in itself
- Being non-idiot is necessary in itself
- Being non-idiot preferable to being happy and/or content and/or peaceful and/or harmless and/or any other human quality in any situation and for any human being.

Same thing, Nosferatu323.
Once again, are you also back-handedly stating that being atheist/non-theist is not good, useful, necessary, and to be so means not being happy, content, peaceful, harmless, or any other human quality in any situation?
If so, strike two.
Wow - you are well on your way to presenting yourself as just the average, run-or-the-mill, narrow minded, trollish asshole.

(26-06-2017 06:49 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Also,
- In case there are some certain conditions under which being non-idiot is preferable, please specify these conditions.

Why do you insist others refer to you, and I suppose all other theists as idiots? Do you have no self respect or respect for others who might be theist? We do have a few theists who hang out here.

(26-06-2017 06:49 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Maybe the state of non-idiot is just the way you define your own happiness?
others define their own happiness differently? ha? What's your thoughts on this?

I have to consider you might be trying to ask some genuine questions in this post but, the overall tone is so patronizing that I find it not worth the trouble of addressing any of it seriously.

Too bad - you might have learned something here.

Instead, as I said previously, you have come into someone's house and have advised them that in your opinion, they are:
idiots
not good
not useful
not necessary
not happy and/or content
not peaceful
are harmful
have no human qualities

Wow. No wonder you have no self respect. I don't think I would put other theists in the same boat with you.

Personally, I would never walk into your "church" and display such behavior. What do you think would happen if I did?

Maybe Nosferatu323, if you could stop being a patronizing asshole and just be a regular person, you might get a decent conversation going here.

While I can't speak to what theists like or don't like about reality, I can say that most non-theists don't like it when someone pretends and calls it reality.

Your intentions for being here are your problem.

Quote:Nosferatu323, are you just back-handedly stating that you think you know that all atheists and/or non-theists think exactly alike and are "most likely" disrespectful enough to consider all theists to be idiots?
I don't think I meant that. However now I understand my overall tone and stupid emphasis on "bring me scientific evidences" was awful, that damn sense of supremacy. Let's forget about all that I asked and consider this simple question: why being non-idiot is preferable in general?
Do you think it can be framed as a genuine and valid question? If so, I'd be glad to know your thoughts on that. If not, can you suggest a better way to put it?

Quote:Maybe Nosferatu323, if you could stop being a patronizing asshole and just be a regular person, you might get a decent conversation going here.
I guess you somewhat understand my position on the theism/atheism issue. Could you please provide me some good examples of subjects that can be constructive for my self and others? So I can get involved in those? Or maybe you can refer to some good conversations with theists and atheists, Vera gave me some clues on that, but it'd be great to have your comment on that also. You can send me a PM. I'd appreciate it. BTW, this is almost my first attempt to get into a real discussion.


Quote:Your intentions for being here are your problem.
I guess you are right, at least "part of the problem" there is always a kinda Supremacy, attached to many theists. It's like a virus in theists. I'm aware of that and I'm consciously fighting it. But I think it's still there. That certainly causes problems. I really find it effective to converse with you guys, and try to see my self in an equal position. It's really helping me. Please do not be bothered by this supremacy, think of it as something you can help me get over it.

Quote:Why do you insist others refer to you, and I suppose all other theists as idiots? Do you have no self respect or respect for others who might be theist? We do have a few theists who hang out here.
You are being right. I apologize any theist who is reading this. I'm no longer implying theists are idiots afterwards and am only concerned with "why should one prefer being non-idiot?" I'm genuinely sorry about it. It's really surprising for me how I didn't it's disrespectful in the first place.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-06-2017, 09:56 AM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(26-06-2017 09:10 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(26-06-2017 07:46 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  While survival is a shared value in many individuals happiness, but there are actaully many instances that the happiness seems to be not relying on survival. People who suicide? It can be an evidence for someone who has based his/her happiness on survival. I'm not sure if I have. I would be happily get killed to defend my family for example.

You are again assuming appreciation is something essential for being happy. Maybe I need non of those knowledge and appreciation to be happy. Is it something objectively wrong with it?
I'm only going off of My opinion of what makes me happy.

Commiting suicide would not make me, nor anybody else happy, and trust me when I say I'm on the list of people who have thought about it.

I'm not 100% sure you understand what happiness even is, if thats what you think happiness is. IE "happily get killed defending your family", its a questionable one. For example, I would protect my family to the death as well, but would that make me "happy", probably not as I'd be dead. I'd feel better that I'd, hopfully, saved their lives but I would also presume that is a natural instinct, as such why wild animals will protect their young.

Appreciation and understanding of things DOES make ME happy at least, because I then KNOW how things work. Many other things make me happy, such as pro wrestling and baseball, and terrible 90's-2000's nu metal music, but it's all personal.

I did mention before, you don't NEED this to be happy, but for me as a person, and having come so far from officially being "dumb" at one point (long story, couldn't write/spell/articulate my thoughts as a kid, was lowest scoring in tests etc etc), and now being able to read at such an "advanced" level and understand things makes me genuinely want to weep with joy. Understanding things now that I could not or even would not grasp mentally some 20 years ago, to me at least, blows the doors off anything that you could ever tell me when I was a big ole dummy.

I say these things as a living example of "educate and better yourself, and you will feel better". I am happy that I have a good job, to provide for my wife/child, to partake in my interests, to READ books all day long if I want to, because I am an educated man.

If I was still an idiot, I dare say I'd be alone, cold and hungry and probably dead by now.

Also: please think before you type. People committing suicide do so because they are at the bottom of a dark dark barrel, and see no other way back to the top. Doing it doesn't make them "happy". Again, I've been there, many a time, and with help from others decided not to go down that route, and I'm happy NOW I'm healthy and have things to live for. Back then I was a mess.

Thanks for sharing your insights.
Quote:I did mention before, you don't NEED this to be happy
I agree I don't need this. But we alway need something right? When my loving parents deeply wish that I have some sort of belief in god so they can share their happiness with me, why not? I mean is it really THAT important to be non-idiot at all costs?

Quote:Also: please think before you type. People committing suicide do so because they are at the bottom of a dark dark barrel, and see no other way back to the top. Doing it doesn't make them "happy". Again, I've been there, many a time, and with help from others decided not to go down that route, and I'm happy NOW I'm healthy and have things to live for. Back then I was a mess.
I haven't been in that situation, and it's great that you are there with your family! Sorry for my bad example, maybe "martyrs" are a better example?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-06-2017, 10:28 AM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(26-06-2017 09:56 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
Quote:I did mention before, you don't NEED this to be happy
I agree I don't need this. But we alway need something right? When my loving parents deeply wish that I have some sort of belief in god so they can share their happiness with me, why not? I mean is it really THAT important to be non-idiot at all costs?

Well, no you don't NEED anything, it's all about self perception really.

I don't want Fop, goddamn it! I'm a Dapper Dan man!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-06-2017, 10:30 AM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(26-06-2017 09:33 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Let's forget about all that I asked and consider this simple question: why being non-idiot is preferable in general?

[Image: 854742a45e138c0ba781fd17b7a7721b--george...quotes.jpg]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 8 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
26-06-2017, 10:32 AM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(26-06-2017 09:56 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I agree I don't need this. But we alway need something right? When my loving parents deeply wish that I have some sort of belief in god so they can share their happiness with me, why not? I mean is it really THAT important to be non-idiot at all costs?

The fuck I care about what your parents want for you? But if they want a deluded, dishonest jerk - more power to them.

And like Kimmie said, the fact that you're a grade-A idiot, doesn't mean all theists are. Piss off.
Quote:Sorry for my bad example, maybe "martyrs" are a better example?

You really are a vile one, on top of dumb and dishonest, aren't you. Piss off.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-06-2017, 10:49 AM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(26-06-2017 10:32 AM)Vera Wrote:  
Quote:Sorry for my bad example, maybe "martyrs" are a better example?

You really are a vile one, on top of dumb and dishonest, aren't you. Piss off.

Bloody hell I missed that bit.

URGH, this person is the worst.

Nosferatu - Martyrs= "a person who suffers very much or is killed because of their religious or political beliefs, and is often admired because of it".

When a person commits suicide, it is because they see no alternative to what they see as an endless cycle of hate/sadness, within themselves. Nobody admires them for it, let alone themselves.

You have proven yourself to be a massive idiot indeed. I mentioned about "self improvement" before, this is something you should practice. You are so concerned about yourself (What makes YOU happy/what YOUR parents want for YOU etc) that you are just acting like a total wank-stain, and are wasting your life.

Many Theists don't share this trait, and it is just YOU as a person who is a giant ass-hole.

Have a word mate.

I don't want Fop, goddamn it! I'm a Dapper Dan man!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes OakTree500's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: