An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
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24-06-2017, 01:36 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 01:23 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(24-06-2017 01:19 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Someone referred to mystics and I quoted them. I don't believe in what they say and have no intention of defending their assertion.

Looks like you have no intention of defending whatever drivel you're spouting. Think preaching will give you some jesus brown points? Or admiration of other believers who you will try to dazzle with story of bravely witnessing to godless heathens refusing to see the light?

You're right. I simply described my journey in a form of analogy as a self expression and an interest to know what atheists think about it. Also I thought there is a chance it might be interesting/useful for others who are concerned about starting a journey or are already in a journey. I'm clarifying the analogy by responding to others. I have no intention of defending anything.

If it's not clear for you why I started the journey in the first place, or why a rational person would start the journey in this analogy, please ask. I would be more than happy to try to explain.
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24-06-2017, 01:38 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
At work.

Oh! Hello again!

Yes, I would be intrigued about such a thing!

What might your reasons be for starting such a thing?

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24-06-2017, 01:41 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 01:13 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Go and check those mystics. I've done that and they told me their god is evident for everyone. In fact they say their god is the only thing that is evident. The journey is necessary for "realization" not "discovery".

Don't get me wrong. I became very adept at explaining the world the way I was taught to by the mystics I was studying. Their worldview had any number of mutually supporting assumptions which *could* describe the real world. The only thing I lacked, in the end, was any substantial evidence that such perspectives were actually correct.

This is exactly why you should never start with the assumption that there is some way to know God exists, because you will only look for whatever supports that assumption. Instead, you should start with the question, "Is the concept of God necessary to explain anything, or is it more likely outdated mythology?"

It is not your responsibility to take up the burden of proof for God, it is the responsibility of whoever is making the claim of knowledge of God. Let them do the work instead of letting them make you do the work.
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24-06-2017, 01:42 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 01:31 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

Hello noferatu323! Big Grin

I would like to ask why your innitial example started off with 'Elephsnt' and not something else?

I am pseudo-poddy proof of possible weirdness..... (Sorry my avatar picture is so small and black and white..... writing implements are hard to 'tentacle' with Blush . Pushing buttons? So much easier. )

Would your example work as well if you postulated a P-Thuhlu?

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Yes, the name is irrelevant.
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24-06-2017, 01:42 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 01:36 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  You're right. I simply described my journey in a form of analogy as a self expression and an interest to know what atheists think about it. Also I thought there is a chance it might be interesting/useful for others who are concerned about starting a journey or are already in a journey. I'm clarifying the analogy by responding to others. I have no intention of defending anything.

It isn't interesting as it is just tired old shit about confirmation bias. You just want your sky daddy to exist but perhaps realizing foolishness of such wish you try to dress it into other kind of woo and from this desire elephants and allegedly satisfying journey cometh.

That is if you're honest, but I doubt that you believe nonsense you're spouting. I think you're just another troll.

Quote:If it's not clear for you why I started the journey in the first place, or why a rational person would start the journey in this analogy, please ask. I would be more than happy to try to explain.

You started no journey, you just were indoctrinated. Also you aren't rational person but just a troll not even skilled in trolling.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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24-06-2017, 01:46 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 01:42 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Yes, the name is irrelevant.

Allah, Yahweh, Shiva? Same difference, eh?

So, I guess, Muhammad is His only prophet, eh?

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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24-06-2017, 01:52 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 01:22 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  You say you're not here to prove anything, yet your replies say exactly that. If you're trying to "prove" your god or other gods exist, then you're wasting your time. You're not doing anything that many others haven't tried before.

Again, you're a theist who insists he has the Real Truth and if only we silly atheists would listen to you, we'd be better off. First, you like most theists assume none of us have ever been religious or that we somehow learned the wrong way. Like most theists, you're assuming none of us have tried our own journeys. You're wrong on both parts.

Instead of posting about how we're wrong and that we need a similar journey, why not learn about why we're atheists? Some here weren't raised in religion and never believed. Others (perhaps most) were religious. I'm not saying you shouldn't stay here, but you're attempting to change our minds. Like many before you, you're not going to succeed. All you're going to do in the end is waste your time and gain the ire of many here.

Relax, don't try to convert us, don't proselytize, offer actual proof (not "I felt it" or "You have to find it yourself"), and learn why.

Not really I'm not trying to convert anyone and I have genuinely nothing to prove. I'm using this space to express my self and to know what atheists think about my journey. And also I'm sharing my happiness by suggesting others to have such a journey. Just suggesting them, not "proving that they must do it"
BTW, thank you for mentioning this. I'll be more careful not to give others the impression that I want to change their minds.
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24-06-2017, 01:55 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 01:46 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(24-06-2017 01:42 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Yes, the name is irrelevant.

Allah, Yahweh, Shiva? Same difference, eh?

So, I guess, Muhammad is His only prophet, eh?

I think different people in different geographies in different times need different woos to start moving, hence the variety of names and concepts.
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24-06-2017, 01:58 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 01:55 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(24-06-2017 01:46 PM)Vera Wrote:  Allah, Yahweh, Shiva? Same difference, eh?

So, I guess, Muhammad is His only prophet, eh?

I think different people in different geographies in different times need different woos to start moving, hence the variety of names and concepts.

But it's the same god at the end, is this what you're saying?

You know ALL religions contradict each other and thus cannot all be true/have the same god, right?

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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24-06-2017, 02:04 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 01:41 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(24-06-2017 01:13 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Go and check those mystics. I've done that and they told me their god is evident for everyone. In fact they say their god is the only thing that is evident. The journey is necessary for "realization" not "discovery".

Don't get me wrong. I became very adept at explaining the world the way I was taught to by the mystics I was studying. Their worldview had any number of mutually supporting assumptions which *could* describe the real world. The only thing I lacked, in the end, was any substantial evidence that such perspectives were actually correct.

This is exactly why you should never start with the assumption that there is some way to know God exists, because you will only look for whatever supports that assumption. Instead, you should start with the question, "Is the concept of God necessary to explain anything, or is it more likely outdated mythology?"

It is not your responsibility to take up the burden of proof for God, it is the responsibility of whoever is making the claim of knowledge of God. Let them do the work instead of letting them make you do the work.

Thank you for sharing your insights. You see, I denied all the conceptions of god when I started moving , all that was left of it was a name that was somehow intriguing for me and someone that I could trust in him who told me he can show me what god is, yet he didn't made any claims about it. But at that point god was no-thing for me (and still is). I only had this trust in that person. But that was enough for me to move. And the journey itself became enough reason for me to move on.
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