An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
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24-06-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 01:58 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(24-06-2017 01:55 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I think different people in different geographies in different times need different woos to start moving, hence the variety of names and concepts.

But it's the same god at the end, is this what you're saying?

You know ALL religions contradict each other and thus cannot all be true/have the same god, right?

I think neither of them is god. They are just useful concepts that could drive certain people in certain times to move. I think contradiction would be acceptable if we assume this is true. ha?
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24-06-2017, 02:09 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:07 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I think neither of them is god. They are just useful concepts that could drive certain people in certain times to move.


Move where? Can you stop with the deepities and actually put some SUBSTANCE in what you're saying

Quote:I think contradiction would be acceptable if we assume this is true. ha?
Once more, with MEANING. This is gibberish.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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24-06-2017, 02:16 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:09 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(24-06-2017 02:07 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I think neither of them is god. They are just useful concepts that could drive certain people in certain times to move.


Move where? Can you stop with the deepities and actually put some SUBSTANCE in what you're saying

Quote:I think contradiction would be acceptable if we assume this is true. ha?
Once more, with MEANING. This is gibberish.

Move to find the Elephant/Zen/Zeus/Allah/Shiva/... what ever that it is.
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24-06-2017, 02:18 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 12:57 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  That's funny... the "you must believe it and then you will see it" argument was one of the factors in causing me to leave religion

Did you know if I believe hard enough and pray for a Testimony of how Joseph Smith and the Golden Plates are real, then it will be shown to me to be real? Wink

Also, new guy, we're nominally on the same side of Team God and all, and I apologize for this...but I'm running on about 6 hours of sleep in the last 72 for reasons I have no clue about, and trying to grasp your mental gymnastics made me think of this Samantha Bee clip:




And please don't take it as an insult, your English as a secondary language is far superior to most of my students who are native speakers.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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24-06-2017, 02:18 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:16 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Move to find the Elephant/Zen/Zeus/Allah/Shiva/... what ever that it is.

So they are all the same? Despite the contradictions in the texts supposed to lead us to them?

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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24-06-2017, 02:20 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
I notice you haven't replied to my question. I'll ask again. What is the evidence on which you base your knowledge claim? Not how you feel. What is the equivalent of the footprint, the tusks?
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24-06-2017, 02:22 PM (This post was last modified: 24-06-2017 02:26 PM by Vera.)
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:20 PM)julep Wrote:  I notice you haven't replied to my question. I'll ask again. What is the evidence on which you base your knowledge claim? Not how you feel. What is the equivalent of the footprint, the tusks?

The piles of dung, Julep, the huge, stinking, piles of dung.

(Actually, elephant dung doesn't really stink. And I should know Rolleyes )

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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24-06-2017, 02:27 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:18 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(24-06-2017 02:16 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Move to find the Elephant/Zen/Zeus/Allah/Shiva/... what ever that it is.

So they are all the same? Despite the contradictions in the texts supposed to lead us to them?

I think if you are honest in finding them and not for example to satisfy your own needs, yes, all the contradicting paths will converge to one path after sometime when your honesty is proven (maybe to yourself?) Also the conceptions of various gods changes when you try to reach them...I think all the honest seeker will have the same conception after enough effort.

I also think this is gradual, meaning if you start with something in your mind it gradually morphs as you move in the path of finding it until all the paths and all the conceptions converge.

But the variety of forms at the first place and their contradictions is necessary due to the contradicting interests of human beings in different times and places.
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24-06-2017, 02:27 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 12:53 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  Regarding definition,
I didn't know of any "correct" definition of elephant when I started my journey and I

still don't and I don't think I'll ever need one. I'm finding evidences one by one,

gradually gaining more knowledge of the elephant, yet I don't now its definition and

when I finally find it a definition would be useless!

That's an ever shifting illusory fuzzy thing [which may not be a thing] .Finding what meaning of elephant is may as well be elephant trying to find meaning for itself.You may use any label for it.


(24-06-2017 12:53 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  About proving/disproving,
Since I don't have any definition for the elephant, I think it's meaningless to try

to prove it or disprove it, I guess you need to define something before you want

prove it or disprove it.
Sounds like a nebulous concept encompassing many things in it.I don't think it aims

to realistically define anything.Definition is pointless.
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24-06-2017, 02:28 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:27 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I think if you are honest in finding them and not for example to satisfy your own needs, yes, all the contradicting paths will converge to one path after sometime when your honesty is proven (maybe to yourself?) Also the conceptions of various gods changes when you try to reach them...I think all the honest seeker will have the same conception after enough effort.

I also think this is gradual, meaning if you start with something in your mind it gradually morphs as you move in the path of finding it until all the paths and all the conceptions converge.

But the variety of forms at the first place and their contradictions is necessary due to the contradicting interests of human beings in different times and places.

[Image: need-some-dressing.jpg]

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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