An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
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24-06-2017, 02:38 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:20 PM)julep Wrote:  I notice you haven't replied to my question. I'll ask again. What is the evidence on which you base your knowledge claim? Not how you feel. What is the equivalent of the footprint, the tusks?

I think what ever that I say will be nonsense. You should see it for yourself, once you do, it will be clear for you why it can't be communicated by language.

Describing color for someone who is color blind is nonsensical. You can just suggest him give it a try and find a cure.

This is just an analogy, I don't mean you have any kind of "problem" that you can't understand what I have seen. I don't really mean it. Seeing the evidence is a natural consequence of moving in the journey and the impossibility of it being expressed using language is the very nature of the evidence.
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24-06-2017, 02:40 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:27 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I think if you are honest in finding them and not for example to satisfy your own needs, yes, all the contradicting paths will converge to one path after sometime when your honesty is proven (maybe to yourself?) Also the conceptions of various gods changes when you try to reach them...I think all the honest seeker will have the same conception after enough effort.

I also think this is gradual, meaning if you start with something in your mind it gradually morphs as you move in the path of finding it until all the paths and all the conceptions converge.

But the variety of forms at the first place and their contradictions is necessary due to the contradicting interests of human beings in different times and places.

Sounds like Sufism. Good luck getting out of that quagmire of assumptions.

Blink
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24-06-2017, 02:42 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:38 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(24-06-2017 02:20 PM)julep Wrote:  I notice you haven't replied to my question. I'll ask again. What is the evidence on which you base your knowledge claim? Not how you feel. What is the equivalent of the footprint, the tusks?

I think what ever that I say will be nonsense. You should see it for yourself, once you do, it will be clear for you why it can't be communicated by language.

Describing color for someone who is color blind is nonsensical. You can just suggest him give it a try and find a cure.

This is just an analogy, I don't mean you have any kind of "problem" that you can't understand what I have seen. I don't really mean it. Seeing the evidence is a natural consequence of moving in the journey and the impossibility of it being expressed using language is the very nature of the evidence.

This seems less like an answer and more like a dodge.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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24-06-2017, 02:43 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:38 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(24-06-2017 02:20 PM)julep Wrote:  I notice you haven't replied to my question. I'll ask again. What is the evidence on which you base your knowledge claim? Not how you feel. What is the equivalent of the footprint, the tusks?

I think what ever that I say will be nonsense. You should see it for yourself, once you do, it will be clear for you why it can't be communicated by language.
But you insisted you had actual, physical proof in your original post. Are you now saying there is no physical proof?

If there were actual physical proof, there would be no atheists or different religions or sects/denominations. That's what we're saying. If you have actual proof, then it would exist regardless of our emotions or feelings. That's why when theists such as you come here and say you have proof, you don't offer it. If in fact one or more gods were real and there was proof, then you'd be willing to share it.

I can't help but think you're just here to suggest we all go on a spiritual journey. If you can't offer actual proof, it's just feelings. And feelings don't prove anything.

Hope you understand why it still feels like you're here to convert us.
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24-06-2017, 02:45 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:38 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I think what ever that I say will be nonsense.

Right on point for once. What you are saying is nonsense.

Quote:You should see it for yourself, once you do, it will be clear for you why it can't be communicated by language.

So in other words you will find god only when you believe in him. Hilarious.

Quote:Describing color for someone who is color blind is nonsensical. You can just suggest him give it a try and find a cure.

Implying that people who don't share in delusion of something called god existence are lacking something? Though in a way you're right - such people lack gullibility necessary to buy into such ridiculous concept.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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24-06-2017, 02:51 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:38 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(24-06-2017 02:20 PM)julep Wrote:  I notice you haven't replied to my question. I'll ask again. What is the evidence on which you base your knowledge claim? Not how you feel. What is the equivalent of the footprint, the tusks?
Describing color for someone who is color blind is nonsensical. You can just suggest him give it a try and find a cure.

So, instead of admitting that you actually have no evidence you are suggesting that we just wont be able to perceive it? How (dis)ingenuous. If you actually had someting, there would be a way to present and explain said evidence.

What is the evidence you found, and why is it evidence for a specific god?

The colour example, by the way, is wrong. Colours (of the visible spectrum of light) are related to very specific and unique wavelenghts. Every person, even (colour) blind ones can do optics based on this knowledge.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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24-06-2017, 02:55 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:43 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(24-06-2017 02:38 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I think what ever that I say will be nonsense. You should see it for yourself, once you do, it will be clear for you why it can't be communicated by language.
But you insisted you had actual, physical proof in your original post. Are you now saying there is no physical proof?

If there were actual physical proof, there would be no atheists or different religions or sects/denominations. That's what we're saying. If you have actual proof, then it would exist regardless of our emotions or feelings. That's why when theists such as you come here and say you have proof, you don't offer it. If in fact one or more gods were real and there was proof, then you'd be willing to share it.

I can't help but think you're just here to suggest we all go on a spiritual journey. If you can't offer actual proof, it's just feelings. And feelings don't prove anything.

Hope you understand why it still feels like you're here to convert us.

If you mean the analogy, well, it was an analogy. I never claimed I have proof and I'm sorry if your misconception was due to my bad use of language.

Yes you are right I'm suggesting everyone go on a spiritual journey at least once in their life time. My suggestion is due to my natural inclination of sharing my happiness with others. I'm merely suggesting though not anything more. I'm want to suggest that a spiritual journey can be a very cool human experience, and the issue with god shouldn't prevent people to avoid it.
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24-06-2017, 02:57 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:55 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I'm suggesting everyone go on a spiritual journey at least once in their life time.

No, thanks.

Off you go.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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24-06-2017, 02:58 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:55 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(24-06-2017 02:43 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  But you insisted you had actual, physical proof in your original post. Are you now saying there is no physical proof?

If there were actual physical proof, there would be no atheists or different religions or sects/denominations. That's what we're saying. If you have actual proof, then it would exist regardless of our emotions or feelings. That's why when theists such as you come here and say you have proof, you don't offer it. If in fact one or more gods were real and there was proof, then you'd be willing to share it.

I can't help but think you're just here to suggest we all go on a spiritual journey. If you can't offer actual proof, it's just feelings. And feelings don't prove anything.

Hope you understand why it still feels like you're here to convert us.

If you mean the analogy, well, it was an analogy. I never claimed I have proof and I'm sorry if your misconception was due to my bad use of language.

Yes you are right I'm suggesting everyone go on a spiritual journey at least once in their life time.

It might have been the analogy or language, then.

But why should an atheist go on a spiritual journey?

And what about people like me, who did go on a spiritual journey, which then made them realize there are no gods?

And why come onto an atheist website, knowing that religion and spirituality will be met with natural skepticism?

And why not instead go on a journey in which you suppose that there are no gods? Why is a journey to prove one's own religious beliefs superior to that of supposing that one's beliefs are merely traditions or outdated superstition?

See, again, you're assuming no atheist has ever done any sort of religious or spiritual contemplation.
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24-06-2017, 02:58 PM
RE: An Alternative: Knowledge instead of Belief
(24-06-2017 02:38 PM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(24-06-2017 02:20 PM)julep Wrote:  I notice you haven't replied to my question. I'll ask again. What is the evidence on which you base your knowledge claim? Not how you feel. What is the equivalent of the footprint, the tusks?

I think what ever that I say will be nonsense. You should see it for yourself, once you do, it will be clear for you why it can't be communicated by language.

Describing color for someone who is color blind is nonsensical. You can just suggest him give it a try and find a cure.

This is just an analogy, I don't mean you have any kind of "problem" that you can't understand what I have seen. I don't really mean it. Seeing the evidence is a natural consequence of moving in the journey and the impossibility of it being expressed using language is the very nature of the evidence.

Can't describe color for someone who is color blind? Why not? Someone who is color blind still can see objects and intensities and contrasts, light and shadows and understands those concepts. Birds can see a bunch more colors than humans can, and while I can't see the way a bird does, I can imagine to an extent. I can even imagine some scientist someday figuring out how to give bird color perception to people--wouldn't that be cool?

You're the person who claims evidence that led you to knowledge. At least if you took a real run at presenting that evidence and the way it connected the dots for you, you'd have made a case for others to make a journey of their own. So far you have not made the journey sound interesting or worthwhile.

Try again.
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