An Argument for God (cont.)
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04-04-2013, 09:11 AM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 09:59 AM by DeavonReye.)
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
I think the words of the late great Christopher Hitchens are in order again:

“How much vanity must be concealed – not too effectively at that – in order to pretend that one is the personal object of a divine plan?”
-Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great

Sorry Heywood, but DocX is correct here, . . . and many of us not only recognize it, but see it as one of the main reasons why any "god" like this would be unworthy of even the smallest amount of "worship". . . . . and that is only one small part. The greatest horror is the "eternal torture, . . . for HIS glory . . . of countless souls who merely didn't believe in him". This is a monster. Nothing else smooths it over or "balances the scales".
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04-04-2013, 09:19 AM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 06:29 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
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04-04-2013, 09:44 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
I think it's tragic that some people are drawn to abusive behavior. We throw our own in prison for crimes against children. But when it's god, well, he's divine, so we smile and say "Hey, that's just god." Why not let the criminals run free, Heywood? God will punish (or maybe forgive) them, right? They'll add to our suffering and make the afterlife better, right?

By the way, if heaven is perfect, how do you increase your appreciation of it through suffering? Are you saying those who don't suffer (and there are people who suffer very little in this life) will not enjoy heaven as much as those who do suffer? Are there different levels of enjoyment in heaven? Do the dead children get their own special table at dinnertime? Please explain, as the bible is unclear on this subject.

You'll receive 10 bonus points if you somehow include the devil in your explanation.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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04-04-2013, 10:56 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(04-04-2013 08:58 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 12:53 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The fact that she is a child is not relavent to your argument. The real question is why do we have to suffer? Phil Ken Sebben said, "I know when I die I'm going to heaven because I've already been to Hell". Can true joy exists without pain and suffering? Maybe God made humans to suffer in order so that they may experience true joy.

So how about 6. A deity exists and he loves us.

Nope. If he was all-powerful, he can make joy exist without pain. The fact he didn't/ doesn't leaves you with option 2.

If he isn't all powerful to do that leaves you with option 3.

Your 6th option doesn't stand.

So its your opinion that God should have created the world without any pain and suffering whatsoever....not even a hang nail?
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04-04-2013, 11:03 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(04-04-2013 09:44 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  I think it's tragic that some people are drawn to abusive behavior. We throw our own in prison for crimes against children. But when it's god, well, he's divine, so we smile and say "Hey, that's just god." Why not let the criminals run free, Heywood? God will punish (or maybe forgive) them, right? They'll add to our suffering and make the afterlife better, right?

By the way, if heaven is perfect, how do you increase your appreciation of it through suffering? Are you saying those who don't suffer (and there are people who suffer very little in this life) will not enjoy heaven as much as those who do suffer? Are there different levels of enjoyment in heaven? Do the dead children get their own special table at dinnertime? Please explain, as the bible is unclear on this subject.

You'll receive 10 bonus points if you somehow include the devil in your explanation.

I wasn't talking about an afterlife but the current life. You are introducing a straw man.
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04-04-2013, 11:06 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(04-04-2013 10:56 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 08:58 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Nope. If he was all-powerful, he can make joy exist without pain. The fact he didn't/ doesn't leaves you with option 2.

If he isn't all powerful to do that leaves you with option 3.

Your 6th option doesn't stand.

So its your opinion that God should have created the world without any pain and suffering whatsoever....not even a hang nail?

Yes, he could and should have. If he couldn't, well then... Round the MerryGo round we go.

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04-04-2013, 11:09 AM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 06:00 PM by Doctor X.)
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
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04-04-2013, 11:09 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(04-04-2013 10:56 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 08:58 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Nope. If he was all-powerful, he can make joy exist without pain. The fact he didn't/ doesn't leaves you with option 2.

If he isn't all powerful to do that leaves you with option 3.

Your 6th option doesn't stand.

So its your opinion that God should have created the world without any pain and suffering whatsoever....not even a hang nail?

There is supposedly an eternal reward that I assume is without pain and suffering. Suppose, for a moment, that you've spent 100,000,000,000,000 years in heaven enjoying bliss. Will you really think back on your 70-90 years on Earth (here's to all of us living that long...)? I see no point in this existence at all if there's an eternal existence afterwards. Why suffer at all? Why have children perish? It's abusive. Projecting love on an abuser is a terrible flaw in human nature. I see loving a god who makes children suffer no different than loving a spouse who physically and emotionally abuses you.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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04-04-2013, 11:18 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(04-04-2013 10:56 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 08:58 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Nope. If he was all-powerful, he can make joy exist without pain. The fact he didn't/ doesn't leaves you with option 2.

If he isn't all powerful to do that leaves you with option 3.

Your 6th option doesn't stand.

So its your opinion that God should have created the world without any pain and suffering whatsoever....not even a hang nail?


Yes, and our feces should be like Jell-o and be edible. We should be solar-powered and not have to eat other animals.

It's a silly argument since there is no evidence for the existence of any gods, so the attributes are whatever you want them to be.

Have fun with theology, the study of nothing.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-04-2013, 11:51 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(04-04-2013 10:56 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  So its your opinion that God should have created the world without any pain and suffering whatsoever....not even a hang nail?

Definitely, if god was perfect he wouldn't have "created" so many gross imperfections.

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