An Argument for God (cont.)
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04-04-2013, 11:49 PM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
Child abuse serves no purpose except for breaking the child. It's a horrible thing that never leaves them.

It's like your walking and suddenly you step on a land-mine...you just hear the "click" and you freeze. You learn to cope. But that stuff about it making you appreciate life is a total crock of something that doesn't smell good. In the back of your mind the fear never really leaves. And it desensitizes you from seeing other areas of control or abuse.

It's like you learn to hide in plain sight.

No, I would say not all suffering is good or serves a greater purpose. That's just lies people try to tell themselves so they can sleep at night. The idea that it builds character somehow.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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05-04-2013, 06:03 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(04-04-2013 10:54 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 10:46 PM)Logisch Wrote:  Just curious, but why do you believe a deity would bother?

A deity creates in order to know. In order to know about pink unicorns they have to exist. Now you can imagine pink unicorns but then you could only say you know about the concept of pink unicorns. In order to know about existing pink unicorns, then pink unicorns have to exist.

If God is to know about human suffering then humans must suffer. Otherwise God can only know about the concept of human suffering.


The god you describe is a sadist.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-04-2013, 06:15 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(05-04-2013 06:03 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 10:54 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A deity creates in order to know. In order to know about pink unicorns they have to exist. Now you can imagine pink unicorns but then you could only say you know about the concept of pink unicorns. In order to know about existing pink unicorns, then pink unicorns have to exist.

If God is to know about human suffering then humans must suffer. Otherwise God can only know about the concept of human suffering.


The god you describe is a sadist.

In addition to being a sadist, they are a really really slow learner.
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05-04-2013, 06:53 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(05-04-2013 06:03 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 10:54 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  A deity creates in order to know. In order to know about pink unicorns they have to exist. Now you can imagine pink unicorns but then you could only say you know about the concept of pink unicorns. In order to know about existing pink unicorns, then pink unicorns have to exist.

If God is to know about human suffering then humans must suffer. Otherwise God can only know about the concept of human suffering.


The god you describe is a sadist.

Your error is that you do not know what "sadist" means.

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05-04-2013, 06:59 AM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 07:03 AM by Heywood Jahblome.)
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(04-04-2013 11:49 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  No, I would say not all suffering is good or serves a greater purpose. That's just lies people try to tell themselves so they can sleep at night. The idea that it builds character somehow.

The question asked "is some suffering good?"

If you beleive that some suffering is good but too much suffering is bad, then your position really amounts to you believe you know more than God what the optimal amount of suffering is that should be allowed to befall mankind.

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05-04-2013, 07:23 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(04-04-2013 11:25 PM)Logisch Wrote:  I do at least appreciate that you are honest enough with the answer of, "I do not know" - however, it still makes me ponder how you came to the conclusion of something emergent and eternal in the first place.

No beef with you, just a different through process so I'm curious.

Your intellect, including the sum of everything you know, is the result of some emergent complex process. A process that we assume started 14.7 billion years ago with the big bang. What would an intellect look like that was the result of an eternal emergent complex process?

If reality is emergent now, why wouldn't we think it wasn't always emergent in the past?

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05-04-2013, 08:25 AM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2013 09:05 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(05-04-2013 06:53 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(05-04-2013 06:03 AM)Chas Wrote:  The god you describe is a sadist.

Your error is that you do not know what "sadist" means.

And your error is to keep pointing out "errors" where there are none. Troll.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadism
The definition fits, to a tee.

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05-04-2013, 08:47 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(05-04-2013 08:25 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(05-04-2013 06:53 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Your error is that you do not know what "sadist" means.

And your error is to keep pointing put "errors" where there are none. Troll.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadism
The definition fits, to a tee.

I forgive you for calling me a troll.

A sadist derives pleasure and no where did I claim God allowed suffering to befall humans for the sake of pleasure, Both you and Chas are errant in using "sadist" in the context of this conversation.

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05-04-2013, 09:01 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(05-04-2013 06:53 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(05-04-2013 06:03 AM)Chas Wrote:  The god you describe is a sadist.

Your error is that you do not know what "sadist" means.

I think Chas is onto something here. If you have read the bible it's not all happy and joy...there's some pretty dark shit too. Why would god send a flood to cover the earth? He's god! You keep telling me how perfect he is...WELL then why? Why not just erase the memories of the people there or snap his omnipotent fingers and poof everything gone..clean slate...

A sadist takes pleasure in watching or participating in the suffering of another. They lack empathy. So they cannot really put themselves into the person suffering's position.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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05-04-2013, 09:08 AM
RE: An Argument for God (cont.)
(05-04-2013 09:01 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(05-04-2013 06:53 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Your error is that you do not know what "sadist" means.

I think Chas is onto something here. If you have read the bible it's not all happy and joy...there's some pretty dark shit too. Why would god send a flood to cover the earth? He's god! You keep telling me how perfect he is...WELL then why? Why not just erase the memories of the people there or snap his omnipotent fingers and poof everything gone..clean slate...

A sadist takes pleasure in watching or participating in the suffering of another. They lack empathy. So they cannot really put themselves into the person suffering's position.

I forgive you for forgiving me. The moral high ground attempt has failed again.
The god of the Bible does indeed derive great pleasure form the suffering of those who are seen to oppose it. In fact he inflicts it purposely.
Aquinas said part of the joy of heaven would be to watch te suffering of the damned.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
"And you quit footing the bill for these nations that are oil rich - we're paying for some of their *squirmishes* that have been going on for centuries" - Sarah Palin
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