An Atheist who Found God
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31-12-2016, 02:37 PM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(31-12-2016 10:02 AM)Walter Wrote:  It was the same with my Precambrian grandfather and Christian grandmother.

He was precambrian and there was no explosion?
Consider

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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31-12-2016, 03:59 PM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(31-12-2016 11:50 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  
(29-12-2016 07:34 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  As a Christian, . . .
<snip>
. . .
Try to approach your experience as a skeptic... it's only then that you have truthful discernment.

You are a professed theist, are you not? Why? [I am coming from the premise there is no God. Only the uncaused existence, which needs no God.]

Yes, I am.

Could you rephrase the question?

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31-12-2016, 05:38 PM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(31-12-2016 10:54 AM)Aliza Wrote:  I’m not saying that this is the case with Peaceful Heart, and I kind of hope that it isn’t because I was looking forward to discussing a few biblical topics with her, but I can’t help but notice that her story follows a reliable template that the Christians use so often to curry favor and pander to a particular community. It starts with an appeal to your sensitivities; “I identify with you in every way because I am one of you. But I’m so much better than you now!” Then it goes on, “You should look to me as a leader because I have new information that you’ve never considered.” Finally the solution, “look at all the love and happiness that I now have as a Christian. You want this love and happiness too, and you can have it if you just let go of everything you love and cherish and drink this nice glass of delicious Kool-Aid.”

It’s insidious because I believe that the proselytizer has only retroactively classified themselves as a member of your group. Identifying themselves as an elite member is critical to establishing credibility. In my community’s case, we’re highly organized so I can ask the person some basic questions about the Orthodox Judaism they’re claiming to be from. In every case across the board, they fail my simple litmus test by being unable to answer very basic questions about orthodoxy. Maybe they have some loose connections to Judaism like they had a grandmother who kept kosher on Passover or something like that, but they themselves were never a part of the orthodox community and their fabricated affiliation comes down like a house of cards with a little prodding. So many of these proselytizers are nothing but shysters and when they’re called on it, they run away. (From another thread, this guy Isaac0517 had no connection to the Hebrew community at all.)

When you boil it down, the proselytizers out there selling us a product and if successful, they will collect special achievement badges from Jesus. The rules of engagement dictate that they must make the sale at all cost, and lying or misrepresenting themselves is a perfectly legal move because the ends justify the means.

Oh, Aliza... if I wasn't already married to a Christian with an incredible mind, I'd propose to your brain.

(I don't know anything about your body, so someone else could marry that, I suppose! Hehe. Tongue )

I was about to answer the guy who said he was probably the only person here married to someone who is religious by linking to about the 30 places on TTA where I've referenced my wife's Christianity, but then I saw your post and I was just blown away.

Never could I have said it so well. Thank you for that.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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31-12-2016, 05:51 PM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2016 09:02 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: An Atheist who Found God
Two other things come to mind about this "I saw the light ... and now feels all warm and fuzzy" business. Well three. Angel

1. What makes this person "so special" ? Why would a deity pick a very very small set of people to grant strange experiences to, (which can be explained totally by brain chemistry), and leave the millions and/or billions of others to wander about in the dark without them. Quite a capricious/trickster deaity that. It's actually the hypocrisy in the signature, that "all you have to do is pray", when in fact that's NOT what happened to the OP. They didn't pray, and they *did* get some "extraordinary" experience. If that's actually what changed their life, then great. But to go from that to "But all you others don't get it, you'll just have to pray and go with that, and maybe you will or maybe you won't get the *revelation* ".

2. We know that very very religious people grow out of this "feel good" *beginner* phase. Mother Teresa, Teresa of Avila, Therese of Lisieux, John of the Cross etc etc etc eventually describe their lives as "the dark night of the soul". So to claim the the general Christian experience is normally one of "warm fuzzy" is way off base. In fact the "saints" recount precisely the opposite, and how abandoned by their deity they feel, (as recounted in Mother Teresa's published letters and the writings of the others).

3. What happens when these people have to face personal tragedy, and the "feels" go away when their babies are very ill, (or worse) or bad things happen to them ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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31-12-2016, 06:28 PM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(31-12-2016 11:03 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  
(30-12-2016 04:56 PM)Chas Wrote:  No one can confirm an entirely internal experience. The only reality is that a person had an internal experience, nothing more.
And so what if we could? How would we know that said entity was the God?
Quote:You missed actual investigation and confirmation.
Where?

In your list of sources of knowledge.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-12-2016, 06:32 PM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(31-12-2016 05:51 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  3. What happens when these people have to face personal tragedy, and the "feels" go away when their babies are very ill, (or worse) or bad things happen to them ?

They tend to either lose their faith or double-down with "mysterious ways" and "God's plan".

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-12-2016, 07:09 PM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
I just wanna say if I ever come to this forum and make a thread saying I had a God vision that filled me with love please try to talk sense into me but if it doesn't work, just mourn the person I was before b/c this SitaSky is dead now, dead and gone, killed by the amazing grace of a super powerful delusion. I may seem happy but I'm happy right now as an atheist so that would just be super sad.

How would this PeacefulHeart person feel if they found out someone was granted a vison by Satan and now they love him and they're going to be a Satanist now because it makes them happy, is that ok? They would think it's awful Satan used his powers to corrupt this person's mind.

But when God does it? Oh, it's so great and wonderful and loving! It's just as bad! If God can't convince people to believe in him and love him just by going to church, reading the bible, etc. than he doesn't deserve their love and forcing it on someone, well that's just lazy and an abuse of power, we should be able to trust our own minds but how can we when some space wizard can interrupt our normal day and indoctrinate us against our will?

It's pretty scary, thank God I'm an atheist but I'm still human and I can still have a delusion at some point, I just hope my reason wins out and you guys can set me straight, please do. I'd do the same for you.

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01-01-2017, 10:51 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(31-12-2016 03:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(31-12-2016 11:50 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  You are a professed theist, are you not? Why? [I am coming from the premise there is no God. Only the uncaused existence, which needs no God.]

Yes, I am.

Could you rephrase the question?

Why are you a theist?
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01-01-2017, 11:00 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(31-12-2016 06:28 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(31-12-2016 11:03 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  And so what if we could? How would we know that said entity was the God?
Where?

In your list of sources of knowledge.
My list?
How does one know by experience?
How does one know by the witness of others?
By what logical deductions?
Are you a theist?
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01-01-2017, 04:28 PM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(01-01-2017 10:51 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  
(31-12-2016 03:59 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Yes, I am.

Could you rephrase the question?

Why are you a theist?

Because I have unrational faith in God.

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