An Atheist who Found God
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03-01-2017, 10:53 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(03-01-2017 10:47 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 10:44 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I consider it insightful if KC was obstinate he would deny his believe was irrational.

I understand your perspective. But there is also a perspective in which knowing you are irrational and you persist is almost arrogant.

Get where you are coming from, but not arrogant if the belief forfils a need in that person which can be deeply personal only KC can really answer you if he feels comfortable doing so.
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03-01-2017, 11:15 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(03-01-2017 01:20 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Well, just as the theists too often do to us (present company excepted of course), there are quite a few atheists who prefer to think that the Lowest Common Denominator represents the intelligent members of the whole, or even the standard members of the disliked/opposing group.

I have yet to meet an intelligent theist who says anything other than that: "My faith is not rational. That's why it's called faith. If I had proof, I wouldn't need faith. That's the whole point of faith."

Even the Christian scriptures explicitly say so. That's what "Paul" (or whoever actually wrote it) is talking about when he describes what faith is, in Hebrews 11.

Where there is emperical evidence, we use logic and reason. For everything else, there's MasterFaith®. Big Grin

Faith is a component (I actually think it's a weak component for me), but I’m primarily using reason and some kind of decision making process. When I weigh out the factors, it simply makes more sense to me that there is a G-d. It also just makes me happy and it’s not hurting anyone else, so why not think what makes the most sense to me?

I’m not saying that I have empirical evidence, BTW. I’m just saying that I’ve got my reasons, and those reasons satisfy my personal requirements to arrive at a decision. I think the only faith that I use is that the reasons I’m relying on have been accurately transmitted down the pipeline.
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03-01-2017, 11:20 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(03-01-2017 10:08 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 08:35 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  Faith is a matter of beleived truths. If one believes in anything which is not true, that cannot make what is not true to be true.
Otherwise faith is a fallacy.

No. It's called relative truth. It's true to that person because of ________. Plus, what I said about faith being irrational.

PS - stop speaking in pseudo-babble. We understand you, but it makes you sound like a pretentious twat.
Please identify what you are calling pseudo-babble.

It is my view irrational faith is to believe what is not true.
It is my view all relative truth is contigent on there being absolute truth. If what is called relative truth is in contradiction then something is not true.
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03-01-2017, 11:22 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(03-01-2017 11:20 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  It is my view irrational faith is to believe what is not true.

I have a long-time atheist friend who uses religion to stay sober knowing full well how ridiculous it is. Sounds rational enough to me.

#sigh
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03-01-2017, 11:27 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(03-01-2017 11:20 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 10:08 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  No. It's called relative truth. It's true to that person because of ________. Plus, what I said about faith being irrational.

PS - stop speaking in pseudo-babble. We understand you, but it makes you sound like a pretentious twat.
Please identify what you are calling pseudo-babble.

It is my view irrational faith is to believe what is not true.
It is my view all relative truth is contigent on there being absolute true. If what is called relative truth is in contradiction then something is not true.

KingsChosen has THE Biblical view of faith.
Everyone thinks they believe what is "absolutely" true. There are billions of "absolute truths", (according to believers).

Biblical faith is a gift of the Spirit, (see St. Paul).
It is not based on reason.

Every human brain processes (by LEARNRD processes) what they "come to believe" to be as close to the truth as they can come.
You have no (non-circular) way of defining "absolute truth".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-01-2017, 11:27 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(03-01-2017 11:22 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 11:20 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  It is my view irrational faith is to believe what is not true.

I have a long-time atheist friend who uses religion to stay sober knowing full well how ridiculous it is. Sounds rational enough to me.
Please explain what you mean? Irrational is rational?
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03-01-2017, 11:36 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(03-01-2017 11:27 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 11:22 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I have a long-time atheist friend who uses religion to stay sober knowing full well how ridiculous it is. Sounds rational enough to me.
Please explain what you mean? Irrational is rational?

By rational I mean he has good reason. Isn't that what rational means?

#sigh
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03-01-2017, 12:51 PM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(03-01-2017 11:36 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 11:27 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  Please explain what you mean? Irrational is rational?

By rational I mean he has good reason. Isn't that what rational means?

His belief is irrational because he cannot justify holding the belief. It's not about just having a good reason, it's about having justified reasons. In other words, sound, solid evidence for holding the belief.

He doesn't have a good reason and he acknowledges that. Being aware of when your brain is making bad decisions is a form of self awareness that many people don't possess.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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03-01-2017, 12:55 PM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(03-01-2017 12:51 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 11:36 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  By rational I mean he has good reason. Isn't that what rational means?

His belief is irrational because he cannot justify holding the belief. It's not about just having a good reason, it's about having justified reasons. In other words, sound, solid evidence for holding the belief.

He doesn't have a good reason and he acknowledges that. Being aware of when your brain is making bad decisions is a form of self awareness that many people don't possess.

I disagree. But I was trained by the guy who wrote "Minimal Rationality" so there's that.

#sigh
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03-01-2017, 01:04 PM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(03-01-2017 12:55 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 12:51 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  His belief is irrational because he cannot justify holding the belief. It's not about just having a good reason, it's about having justified reasons. In other words, sound, solid evidence for holding the belief.

He doesn't have a good reason and he acknowledges that. Being aware of when your brain is making bad decisions is a form of self awareness that many people don't possess.

I disagree. But I was trained by the guy who wrote "Minimal Rationality" so there's that.

ra·tion·al
ˈraSH(ə)n(ə)l/
adjective
1.
based on or in accordance with reason or logic.
"I'm sure there's a perfectly rational explanation"
synonyms: logical, reasoned, sensible, reasonable, cogent, intelligent, judicious, shrewd, common-sense, commonsensical, sound, prudent; down-to-earth, practical, pragmatic
"a rational approach"


rea·son
ˈrēzən/
noun
1.
a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event.
"the minister resigned for personal reasons"
synonyms: cause, ground(s), basis, rationale; More
2.
the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic.
"there is a close connection between reason and emotion"
synonyms: rationality, logic, logical thought, reasoning, cognition; formalratiocination
"postmodern voices railing against reason"



@Rahn, just because one person may not agree with the terms (of a decision) doesn't mean that those terms don't exist.
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