An Atheist who Found God
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
04-01-2017, 08:41 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(03-01-2017 04:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 08:14 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  To all here.
Everyone has some kind of reason for some kind of faith. For a modern example: Jupiter has 67 known moons. The evidence is not common knowlege. But for the majority of us it is a matter of faith in reporting sources.

Faith is not required - one can inspect the actual evidence.
Oh. Are you saying evidence does not need to be believed[to have faith in]?

[I have only personally known the evidence of the 4 moons of Jupiter. Having seen them.]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-01-2017, 08:41 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(04-01-2017 08:27 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 09:19 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  (1) On this forum you will encounter a few theists. We like them because they are cool people with interesting minds who don't preach at us. We have our differences to be sure, but we have much more in common. It's strangely like real life that way.
I think that the beliefs of theists and atheists alike should be able to explain and defend them in a reasonable way.

And I believe that my beliefs are personal, and that I don't need to justify them to anyone unless I choose to do so. If someone thinks that I should be able to explain my beliefs in a reasonable way, then I expect that person to first impress me enough that I wish to explain it to them, and to also have a comprehensive Jewish education so they can understand what I'm talking about.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Aliza's post
04-01-2017, 08:46 AM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2017 08:58 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(04-01-2017 07:50 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I just thought they were well spoken, knowledgeable & eloquent nutjobs Smile

And the question isn't whether Carrie Fisher is beautiful or not. The question is do you see the orange unicorn in the picture behind her ?

Those who see the unicorn are theists and no matter their reasons or complexity of their belief, it's still not rational to believe the unicorn is in the picture.

What if I had a drug that would make you see orange unicorns (let's put aside for the moment the fact that I actually do have such a drug) and slipped it to you (it's very tiny, I could administer it to you in a handshake and you wouldn't even notice) and then you saw orange unicorns in a picture you have never seen before (so no context to work from). Is it rational to believe there are unicorns in the picture or not?

Let me take your metaphor a step further. My drug is so selective that you only see orange unicorns in this picture and nowhere else (it's not, you see orange unicorns everywhere). Everyone tells you there is no unicorn in the picture. The artist tells you there is no unicorn in the picture. You don't feel any different under the drug, you have no reason to suspect that some Girlyman is playing deus deceptor with your perceptions and every time you look at the picture you see an orange unicorn. What is the rational thing to believe wrt unicorns in the picture?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-01-2017, 09:01 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(04-01-2017 08:46 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 07:50 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I just thought they were well spoken, knowledgeable & eloquent nutjobs Smile

And the question isn't whether Carrie Fisher is beautiful or not. The question is do you see the orange unicorn in the picture behind her ?

Those who see the unicorn are theists and no matter their reasons or complexity of their belief, it's still not rational to believe the unicorn is in the picture.

What if I had a drug that would make you see orange unicorns (let's put aside for the moment the fact that I actually do have such a drug) and slipped it to you (it's very tiny, I could administer it to you in a handshake and you wouldn't even notice) and then you saw orange unicorns in a picture you have never seen before (so no context to work from). Is it rational to believe there are unicorns in the picture or not?

Let me take your metaphor a step further. My drug is so selective that you only see orange unicorns in this picture (it's not, you see orange unicorns everywhere) and nowhere else. Everyone tells you there is no unicorn in the picture. The author tells you there is no unicorn in the picture. You don't feel any different under the drug, you have no reason to suspect that some Girlyman is playing deus deceptor with your perceptions and every time you look at the picture you see an orange unicorn. What is the rational thing to believe?

Nope, wouldn't be rational. My personal experience would not match independent observations of the picture. My personal experience would not match experiments done with the picture to confirm what ONLY I was seeing.

Therefore I would conclude that something was altering my perception of reality.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-01-2017, 09:18 AM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2017 09:22 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(04-01-2017 09:01 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 08:46 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  What if I had a drug that would make you see orange unicorns (let's put aside for the moment the fact that I actually do have such a drug) and slipped it to you (it's very tiny, I could administer it to you in a handshake and you wouldn't even notice) and then you saw orange unicorns in a picture you have never seen before (so no context to work from). Is it rational to believe there are unicorns in the picture or not?

Let me take your metaphor a step further. My drug is so selective that you only see orange unicorns in this picture (it's not, you see orange unicorns everywhere) and nowhere else. Everyone tells you there is no unicorn in the picture. The author tells you there is no unicorn in the picture. You don't feel any different under the drug, you have no reason to suspect that some Girlyman is playing deus deceptor with your perceptions and every time you look at the picture you see an orange unicorn. What is the rational thing to believe?

Nope, wouldn't be rational. My personal experience would not match independent observations of the picture. My personal experience would not match experiments done with the picture to confirm what ONLY I was seeing.

Therefore I would conclude that something was altering my perception of reality.

Reality is constantly being distorted by your transducers anyway. Like by definition. Why is it rational to favor one transducer state over another as being more representative of reality? And why is it rational to favor consensus opinion over direct experience? One more question. Why is it rational to pursue the completely unachievable goal of acting as a perfectly rational agent?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-01-2017, 09:27 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(04-01-2017 09:01 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 08:46 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  What if I had a drug that would make you see orange unicorns (let's put aside for the moment the fact that I actually do have such a drug) and slipped it to you (it's very tiny, I could administer it to you in a handshake and you wouldn't even notice) and then you saw orange unicorns in a picture you have never seen before (so no context to work from). Is it rational to believe there are unicorns in the picture or not?

Let me take your metaphor a step further. My drug is so selective that you only see orange unicorns in this picture (it's not, you see orange unicorns everywhere) and nowhere else. Everyone tells you there is no unicorn in the picture. The author tells you there is no unicorn in the picture. You don't feel any different under the drug, you have no reason to suspect that some Girlyman is playing deus deceptor with your perceptions and every time you look at the picture you see an orange unicorn. What is the rational thing to believe?

Nope, wouldn't be rational. My personal experience would not match independent observations of the picture. My personal experience would not match experiments done with the picture to confirm what ONLY I was seeing.

Therefore I would conclude that something was altering my perception of reality.

Shrooms, fuck I used to love them back in the day.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes adey67's post
04-01-2017, 09:33 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(04-01-2017 08:41 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 08:27 AM)Peter Slevon Wrote:  I think that the beliefs of theists and atheists alike should be able to explain and defend them in a reasonable way.

And I believe that my beliefs are personal, and that I don't need to justify them to anyone unless I choose to do so ...

Unless the behaviours stemming from those beliefs breach a social contract for a given scope of affinity (other than affinity with self) or when those behaviours, as a subset of culture, conflict with the behaviours of a neighbouring culture.

Drinking Beverage

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-01-2017, 09:34 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(04-01-2017 07:34 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(03-01-2017 09:19 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  If you can't even master this "simple" truth about one individual then why would you expect the same from theists about a personal philosophy and theology that is complex and mature enough to earn the grudging respect of a forum full of atheists?
While I can only speak for myself, I think it's fair to say that I'm not the only atheist on here who strongly disagrees with the notion that we respect theists like KC because their personal philosophies and theologies are somehow "complex and mature."

How can you even say that with a straight face?

It's also not cool to conflate disagreements with or criticisms of a person's world views with liking or disliking, respecting or disrespecting that individual person.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like tomilay's post
04-01-2017, 09:37 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
(04-01-2017 09:27 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 09:01 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Nope, wouldn't be rational. My personal experience would not match independent observations of the picture. My personal experience would not match experiments done with the picture to confirm what ONLY I was seeing.

Therefore I would conclude that something was altering my perception of reality.

Shrooms, fuck I used to love them back in the day.

Thought you were one of them toad lickers, no? ... bufotenin, psilocybin, dmt, they're all fun.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-01-2017, 09:40 AM
RE: An Atheist who Found God
I felt like my face was going to break from the grins...........
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes skyking's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: