An Attempt at Debunking the Biblical God
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07-09-2012, 10:59 PM
An Attempt at Debunking the Biblical God
Hey there! I'm new to this form, I needed an escape from Facebook to a different potential outlet for my views, and being new into the anti-theistic argument, I have formed some opinions on the Christian view of free will, an all knowing God and the afterlife. I have come up with an idea I would love feedback on.

The Bible makes the claim that we have free will. I think this is ultimately false in the face of the all knowing God hypothesis. God supposedly created man in his image. God created me in his image, you, etc. according to the Bible. God gave us brains we use to drive everything we do, specifically tailored to his liking. This would mean that God has tailored us to act a certain way from the moment he designed our "soul" or conciousness in Heaven. If he designed us with a set of possibilities that perhaps we could end up one way or another or another, as we have free will, this eliminates the all knowing aspect of God. Even if we have "free will"; would God not know HOW we are going to use this free will? God must have known Cain would kill his brother out of envy from the, well he must have always known this as he is all knowing and exists outside of time. Yet he punishes him for creating him this way, which is the second part of my argument. Why would God punish us for creating us a specific way? If he is ultimately responsible for everything by creating everything and knowing events would transpire a specific way, this means God is ultimately responsible for everything. Good, evil, original sin, charity, YET he punishes or rewards us for the gift or burden he has placed on us from the start. God has always known I would fail to believe in Him, yet he created me this way anyway. My soul was damned to an eternity in fire from the moment it was created. What kind of idea is this? I look at things from a neuroscientific perspective and have concluded free will is an illusion, all of our will is a product of our brain chemistry and events we cannot control in our lives, not free. But the idea of an all knowing God, eternal torture and free will are ultimately incompatible.
Let's compare this to an engineer and robots, for example. Imagine I am the perfect robotic engineer. My robotic creations do not malfunction, they do not fail, they do as I code them and only that, because I am all knowing of robotic engineering. I create a set of robots to spread amongst themselves word of me. Anything perceived as a malfunction is actually intricately coded into the robots by me, malfunctions could be comparable to atheism. If I set my robots to do one task, why would I order some of them not to do the task, then cry and be furious when they don't abide to that task order because I DESIGNED them that way, then destroy them and burn them? That is nonsense, and I see that as atheism, free will, and the Biblical God. My understanding of religion is relatively fundamental, but I would assume this is possible to be carried over to other monotheistic religions, such as Islam or Judaism.

These were just some points I made. I would love feedback on their validity! Thank you for reading.
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07-09-2012, 11:37 PM (This post was last modified: 07-09-2012 11:42 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: An Attempt at Debunking the Biblical God
Being created in "his image" opens up a fun house of contradictions.

It doesn't make since that being created in his image man kind could do things god could not. For instance breaking god's laws. Because being made in his image would imply we are also inheritors of his nature. Which opens up another set of impossibilites.

What about knowing things that god didn't know in the bible? Such as everything we know about space and the universe.

For instance if we are the image of god then how is it possible that we exist it limited bodies with these shapes if god is in everything?

Should we resemble then a creature that exists in many things like a fungus?

Or if being in the image of god why are there things we cannot do, things we cannot know?

There are other properties of god that when man is made of his image ruins the idea.


In fact I'd be so bold as to say that god is the most self refuting idea mankind has ever dreamnt of.

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07-09-2012, 11:40 PM
RE: An Attempt at Debunking the Biblical God
(07-09-2012 11:37 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Being created in "his image" opens up a fun house of contradictions.

It doesn't make since that being created in his image man kind could do things god could not. For instance breaking god's laws. Because being made in his image would imply we are also inheritors of his nature. Which opens up another set of impossibilites.

For instance if we are the image of god then how is it possible that we exist it limited bodies with these shapes if god is in everything?
Should we resemble then a creature that exists in many things like a fungus?

Or if being in the image of god why are there things we cannot do, things we cannot know?

There are other properties of god that when man is made of his image ruins the idea.

The idea of being created in His "image" is generally seen as we are each created as He wants us to be created. No matter what interpretation you look at, the fact that a God of His level must be all knowing by definition, God knows how our lives will ultimately end up. Unless he chooses to tune out this knowledge, something nonsensical by nature. But He does create us knowing how we will end up, and therefore essentially creates every moment from the moment our soul is beamed unto Earth until the moment it is released from our physical body.
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07-09-2012, 11:55 PM
RE: An Attempt at Debunking the Biblical God
(07-09-2012 11:40 PM)TBH717 Wrote:  The idea of being created in His "image" is generally seen as we are each created as He wants us to be created.


Interesting. However being created in such a way that god has a specific role to play also ruins his ability to claim sin. If he makes a man who has only an option to kill, then how can that man be accountable for what god himself created this man to be?

Quote: No matter what interpretation you look at, the fact that a God of His level must be all knowing by definition, God knows how our lives will ultimately end up. Unless he chooses to tune out this knowledge, something nonsensical by nature. But He does create us knowing how we will end up, and therefore essentially creates every moment from the moment our soul is beamed unto Earth until the moment it is released from our physical body.

I know about the omniscience contradictions, but why is that the only thing god can have?

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07-09-2012, 11:57 PM
RE: An Attempt at Debunking the Biblical God
(07-09-2012 11:55 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(07-09-2012 11:40 PM)TBH717 Wrote:  The idea of being created in His "image" is generally seen as we are each created as He wants us to be created.


Interesting. However being created in such a way that god has a specific role to play also ruins his ability to claim sin. If he makes a man who has only an option to kill, then how can that man be accountable for what god himself created this man to be?

Quote: No matter what interpretation you look at, the fact that a God of His level must be all knowing by definition, God knows how our lives will ultimately end up. Unless he chooses to tune out this knowledge, something nonsensical by nature. But He does create us knowing how we will end up, and therefore essentially creates every moment from the moment our soul is beamed unto Earth until the moment it is released from our physical body.

I know about the omniscience contradictions, but why is that the only thing god can have?

I am an atheist, just making that clear, haha.
Well if God gave options, he would still KNOW as he creates this soul what options and what "free" path the man will take. Which mean they are not really options at all, that God is ultimately responsible for everything.
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08-09-2012, 12:01 AM (This post was last modified: 08-09-2012 12:07 AM by fstratzero.)
RE: An Attempt at Debunking the Biblical God
(07-09-2012 11:57 PM)TBH717 Wrote:  
(07-09-2012 11:55 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Interesting. However being created in such a way that god has a specific role to play also ruins his ability to claim sin. If he makes a man who has only an option to kill, then how can that man be accountable for what god himself created this man to be?


I know about the omniscience contradictions, but why is that the only thing god can have?

I am an atheist, just making that clear, haha.
Well if God gave options, he would still KNOW as he creates this soul what options and what "free" path the man will take. Which mean they are not really options at all, that God is ultimately responsible for everything.

I'm also an atheist.

Personally I think the best way for theists to argue for god is to start out with the idea that god can do anything, even contradictions, paradoxes and nonsensical things.

After that they have a very annoying platform.


Also I agree with your deductions wholly. If I remember correctly omnipotence and omniscience contradict themselves individually.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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08-09-2012, 05:15 AM (This post was last modified: 08-09-2012 06:32 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: An Attempt at Debunking the Biblical God
(07-09-2012 10:59 PM)TBH717 Wrote:  The Bible makes the claim that we have free will.

Actually it doesn't say that. In some ways, it assumes it. The salvation paradigm, and the convoluted theological systems which employ that idea, were grafted later into the early development of Christianity by a few people. We know who they were, and when that happened. What you're doing here is not really "debunking the biblical" god. You're "debunking" what you may have been taught was the "biblical god".

Neuroscience has demonstrated that there is no such thing as "free will", as you said. Decisions are made before we are aware of them.
The relationship between omniscience and free will as, (self-refuting) is nothing new.

It's great you're thinking, but many before you have come to these conclusions long before.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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08-09-2012, 05:44 AM
RE: An Attempt at Debunking the Biblical God
(08-09-2012 05:15 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Neuroscience has demonstrated that there is no such thing as "free will", as you said. Decisions are made before we are aware of them.
Care to elaborate on that point? I recall watching an experiment that was supposed to prove this, but it didn't convince me at all.

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08-09-2012, 06:31 AM (This post was last modified: 09-09-2012 08:44 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: An Attempt at Debunking the Biblical God
(08-09-2012 05:44 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(08-09-2012 05:15 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Neuroscience has demonstrated that there is no such thing as "free will", as you said. Decisions are made before we are aware of them.
Care to elaborate on that point? I recall watching an experiment that was supposed to prove this, but it didn't convince me at all.





See the other videos available by Eagleman about the subconscious elements which contribute to consciousness.
For example : http://beamsandstruts.com/articles/item/842-pigdog

















http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~wegner/pdfs/...rskine.pdf

http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~wegner/conscwil.htm

http://www.decisionneurosciencelab.org/

http://www2.gsu.edu/~phlean/papers/Agenc...lusion.pdf

http://web.gc.cuny.edu/cogsci/private/wegner-trick.pdf

http://www.lucaswest.com/BypassingtheWill.pdf

http://academic.udayton.edu/jackbauer/Re...20Will.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=G5CaTnN...29&f=false

http://www.theassc.org/files/assc/Primin...orASSC.pdf

http://www.frontiersin.org/consciousness...00106/full

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferring_self-agency

http://psych.princeton.edu/psychology/re...Powers.pdf

http://www.yale.edu/acmelab/articles/Bar..._final.pdf

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/workshop...lusion.pdf

http://web.gc.cuny.edu/cogsci/private/Ha...ark-CC.pdf

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist and Levitating yogi, CAAT-LY.
Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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08-09-2012, 07:24 AM
RE: An Attempt at Debunking the Biblical God
(07-09-2012 11:37 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Being created in "his image" opens up a fun house of contradictions.
no it dont.

We are of nature, period!

but if you want to freakout- i am a natural, yet go look at the goof hanging on a cross, in just about every christian church.

no one knows what 'jesus' looked like, but damn that is weird.

Quote:It doesn't make since that being created in his image man kind could do things god could not. For instance breaking god's laws. Because being made in his image would imply we are also inheritors of his nature. Which opens up another set of impossibilites.

man made the laws...... not god(s)

man created the 'word'

what 'god' are you talking about?
Quote:What about knowing things that god didn't know in the bible? Such as everything we know about space and the universe.

man wrote the old beliefs/book and is experiencing 'space and the universe', finally!

the error is people have come to accept santa claus. And now actually think they know what HE is thinking.

Scary fuckin shit!



Quote:For instance if we are the image of god then how is it possible that we exist it limited bodies with these shapes if god is in everything?
what limit?

if mankind can create god(s) to fall on their knees too, then what limits are you talking about?

Do you want to walk on water?

Then freeze it first!

Quote:Should we resemble then a creature that exists in many things like a fungus?
see craig ventor

Quote:Or if being in the image of god why are there things we cannot do, things we cannot know?
like what?

name one thing, that you cannot do, that is more than just whine or selfish desires?
Quote:There are other properties of god that when man is made of his image ruins the idea.
like what? Do you want lightning bolts in your hand? (see tesla)

Quote:In fact I'd be so bold as to say that god is the most self refuting idea mankind has ever dreamnt of.

Nature - god itself

man, from nature

man created words, made gods

with words, man can move mountains

The pinnacle of evolution: existence comprehending itself
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