An Email forward I received...
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15-09-2011, 11:02 AM
RE: An Email forward I received...
So if God needs to be explained as true THAT much and I can only accept him on faith instead of what my body and senses feel as real in the end anyway, why should I believe? Oh right, because I don't want eternal damnation. Yes, we can't know everything, maybe we will find out after we die, but this huge heavy decision must be the right one even though we don't know all the facts and have to go on faith alone, because God created us to not understand but to trust the bigger picture. How can bad to the bone human make this choice when 1, we are bad and 2, we don't 'get' it? That's like asking my 6 year old to drive a car for the first time and do everything right all the way to the store, solely by using the manual (bible) (though she can pray to me I suppose, but she'll have to listen to her heart for the answer).

That brain analogy is dumb. I've seen other brains to know I have a brain. 100 percent of the time when brain surgery was preformed brains were found in those individuals. Maybe I need to see other Gods before I believe in *Him*. Tongue
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15-09-2011, 11:10 AM
RE: An Email forward I received...
The five senses thing is crap too. We have way more than five senses, but the traditional five are the easiest to explain and imagine. Close your eyes and touch your finger to your nose. Did you use sight, smell, touch, taste or hearing to do that? No. Instead you have a sense of where your limbs are relative to the rest of your body. It is a sense but not an easy one to define.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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15-09-2011, 11:39 AM
RE: An Email forward I received...
Hey, BD.

Quote:As for the darkness and cold examples, darkness may in fact be an absence of light and cold may be an absence of heat, but (as pointed out by others) they can be quantitatively measured and observed.

That's not actually true. There are light metres, but no darkness metres. And darkness is absolutely relative. Dark only seems dark when the light sensor (our eye, say) isn't sensitive enough to pick up the light level, or the particular electromagnetic frequency. Dark to me is fine for a dog and fine for an Apache gunship that can see in infrared. Dark isn't even dark once my eyes adjust their sensitivity and my night vision kicks in. And absolute zero, which can't actually be reached, is the absence of all energy. Anything above absolute zero is with energy. That's why the Kelvin scale starts at 0 (-273 degrees Celsius).

Having said that, I realise that your point might have been that light and heat are observable and God is not. If so, please ignore the last paragraph. That being said, I don't think he's saying he has evidence of God, he's just proceeding as if there is a God.

Oh, and the touching your nose thing is actually very easy to define. You have proprioceptors that coordinate that. It's not a sense in the sense (waka waka) of sight, hearing et all. Proprioceptors coordinate movement (interoception) and senses give us information about the world around us (exteroception).

Hey, Boe.

Socratic dialogue has been used since the 4th century BC.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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15-09-2011, 11:41 AM
RE: An Email forward I received...
Interesting. A few comments about the narrative ...

Quote:"Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

This is more of an issue of semantics. Cold can be (and basically is) defined as "the absence of heat." So what?

The same applies to light & darkness.

Quote:"My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

Just because one's premise is flawed does not mean one's conclusion is wrong. The conclusion may be right independent of the flawed premise. The student's statement is a logical fallacy.

Quote:"science can't even explain a thought"

Humans not being able to explain something has nothing to do with whether or not God exists.

Quote:"Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

Partially wrong. Death is the condition of something that was alive that is no longer alive.

If death is "just the absence of" life, than a rock is "dead." So is a container of water, or an asphalt road. These are not dead because they were never alive. So while there is the "absence of life" in these cases, there is not death.

Quote:"... according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain ..."

The fact that the professor is talking and having a conversation with a student would seem to indicate that there is evidence that the professor has a brain.

Quote:"Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God."

Even if "good" was substituted for "God," this is still wrong. Some things are neither good nor evil. If I say that "green is better than blue," or if I buy a green shirt and don't buy a blue shirt, the statement and actions are neither good nor evil.

What is evil and what is good is a question for the current ongoing thread regarding morality. Smile

- Chip
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15-09-2011, 12:10 PM
RE: An Email forward I received...
Quote:your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

Wrong.... Conclusuions can be correct even if the premise is flawed.

Quote:Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

None of the students have felt, touched, smelt or heard their own brians either. By this guys logic they, and he, have no brains either. This is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard and I am not even a brain surgen. Big Grin

Quote:Evil is simply the absence of God.
and
God is simply the absence knowledge.


Quote:Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

oooh... the suspence is killing me!!!

“We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.” Orson Welles
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15-09-2011, 12:11 PM
RE: An Email forward I received...
I read this not too long ago on another site (made up of mostly xtian people). It's so frustrating reading their responses. It's fake made up cute little stories like these that make them go: AHA! Gotcha Atheists! That story right there proves god's existence!

I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. – Susan B. Anthony
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15-09-2011, 12:35 PM
RE: An Email forward I received...
Quote: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir

Take it from someone studying human biology, science most defiantly says he has a brain.

It can be observed it can be felt smelled and if you are a bit strange tasted. All it would take is a drill or some other surgical tools,

I have met some people that I believe had a space where the brain should be but that was a ridiculous argument.

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15-09-2011, 12:39 PM
RE: An Email forward I received...
On the light and darkness thing, they are both forms of electromagnetic radiation. So, as you point out darkness may be defined as an absence of visible light, it does not mean an absence of the visible spectrum. I do not know of any examples anywhere in the universe where there is no electromagnetic radiation, so there can never be an absence of EM, only an undetectable amount of some portion of it.

The only thing that comes to mind would be a black hole, but even here there is mass and energy, the gravitational pull is so strong that light can't escape, though.

I get your point though Ghost.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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15-09-2011, 01:47 PM
RE: An Email forward I received...
This was obviously written to make the Atheist Philosophy Professor look like and feel like a dunce, while showing off the simple, Christian boy as the bringer of the beautiful truth. Angel

I'm sure this is a forward that is going around to any and all atheists known by any Christ-ys. It's like they try to clutch at any straw they can while trying to suck you in. I don't even open forwards anymore -waste of time.

H + BW + BF - LR= G
(Holy text + brainwashing + blind faith - Logic & reason = God)

I would also add to this a big "E" for emotion and maybe a small "p" for pride as the exponent of "G".
(since pride is a sin, it could only be applied to G) Wink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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15-09-2011, 02:11 PM
RE: An Email forward I received...
(15-09-2011 01:47 PM)kim Wrote:  H + BW + BF - LR= G
(Holy text + brainwashing + blind faith - Logic & reason = God)

I would also add to this a big "E" for emotion and maybe a small "p" for pride as the exponent of "G".
(since pride is a sin, it could only be applied to G) Wink

I'm happy for anyone to add to my equation. Nothing wrong with a bit of collaboration Smile

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