An Essay on the Moral Argument
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30-07-2017, 08:31 AM
RE: An Essay on the Moral Argument
(30-07-2017 08:06 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Then religion is effective in what? In bamboozling people into giving their cash to people running this totalitarian wet dream?

Effective in shifting their perception of good and bad. Legal systems do the same thing with real punishments. The good and bad defined by legal systems are very different from the religious ones, that's not my point.
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30-07-2017, 08:38 AM
RE: An Essay on the Moral Argument
(30-07-2017 08:31 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  
(30-07-2017 08:06 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Then religion is effective in what? In bamboozling people into giving their cash to people running this totalitarian wet dream?

Effective in shifting their perception of good and bad.

It's certainly effective in that - it explains church child abuse pretty well.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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01-08-2017, 04:45 PM
RE: An Essay on the Moral Argument
(29-07-2017 08:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'm assuming you're not a moral nihilist, like Stevil, and likely subscribe to some concept of morality yourself? That you would likely label certain actions as immoral, etc...
"Morality" is a human construct, and each human constructs theirs a little differently.

Quote:I'm also assuming you do find torturing innocent babies just for funs immoral, or at least find other things immoral.

The question I'm asking involves how I should understand your own moral statements at a fundamental level. That you're ultimately just expressing to me your likes and dislikes. That when you tell me something is morally wrong, what you're ultimately expressing by that statement is that you don't like something.

Nosfertu suggested that this is the case for his moral statement. I would like to know whether it's true for you as well. That way I know if someone like yourself or him, is accusing me or anyone else of being immoral, at the end of the day all your telling me is what you personally don't like.
I don't believe that I've ever told you that anything was "morally wrong", nor have I accused anyone of being "immoral". I don't tend to see things in terms of personal morality. I find it more productive to look at group ethic, which is largely a sort of average representation of the moral beliefs of the members of the group, and likely to have far wider social impact than any one person's individual moral beliefs.

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Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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01-08-2017, 04:56 PM
RE: An Essay on the Moral Argument
(30-07-2017 08:06 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(30-07-2017 07:54 AM)nosferatu323 Wrote:  I never said religions help people be better citizens. Religious laws have not much in common with legal laws, in fact they can go against legal laws in some instances.

Then religion is effective in what? In bamboozling people into giving their cash to people running this totalitarian wet dream?
Religion is the ur-politick. It's fundamental purpose, beyond that of self-perpetuation, is to facilitate control of the many, by the few.

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Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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02-08-2017, 07:04 AM
RE: An Essay on the Moral Argument
its a huge problem. far left liberals are as dangerous as the far right nuts. "my god says so" is not a reason to make a law or a moral code. This is one area that i really don't have an answer to. Its one reason I won't jump on the ban religion ban wagon. Controlling religion, taxing religion, and teaching people how to question is one thing but anti-religion, ban all religion because "my practical emotional need is better than theirs", is a level that I just don't see the numbers supporting ... yet.
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03-08-2017, 07:10 AM
An Essay on the Moral Argument
(01-08-2017 04:45 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(29-07-2017 08:39 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'm assuming you're not a moral nihilist, like Stevil, and likely subscribe to some concept of morality yourself? That you would likely label certain actions as immoral, etc...
"Morality" is a human construct, and each human constructs theirs a little differently.

Quote:I'm also assuming you do find torturing innocent babies just for funs immoral, or at least find other things immoral.

The question I'm asking involves how I should understand your own moral statements at a fundamental level. That you're ultimately just expressing to me your likes and dislikes. That when you tell me something is morally wrong, what you're ultimately expressing by that statement is that you don't like something.

Nosfertu suggested that this is the case for his moral statement. I would like to know whether it's true for you as well. That way I know if someone like yourself or him, is accusing me or anyone else of being immoral, at the end of the day all your telling me is what you personally don't like.
I don't believe that I've ever told you that anything was "morally wrong", nor have I accused anyone of being "immoral". I don't tend to see things in terms of personal morality. I find it more productive to look at group ethic, which is largely a sort of average representation of the moral beliefs of the members of the group, and likely to have far wider social impact than any one person's individual moral beliefs.


That doesn’t really the question.

Let’s take it one step at a time.

Do you hold that torturing innocent babies just for fun is morally wrong?

(Even if by yes, you mean you and your group hold it as morally wrong )




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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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