An European perspective
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07-12-2012, 02:46 AM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2012 02:49 AM by European Atheist.)
RE: An European perspective
Brief history of the protestand church of Finland: Finland was pagan land until 12th century when swedes brought catholic fate here. Finland became part of the swedish empire and was changed to protestant faith with the reformation and robbery of the swedish catholic church. Early 19th century Russian conquered Finland as part of a war with Sweden and the conflict with Napoleon. Russians keeped the protestant church here to keep the people happy and the protestant church of Finland was born.

There is this folk story about a pagan peasant called Lalli who killed the swedish bishop Henrik. Lalli is romanticed a lot and seen almost as some kind of a national hero and a model of "finnishnes". (Drunken, violent man who works his fields day and night and beats his family Hahaha)
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07-12-2012, 04:07 AM
RE: An European perspective
(06-12-2012 08:25 PM)European Atheist Wrote:  First i would like to introduce myself since I'm a new user on these forums. I'm 20 years old man and i live in Finland. I've been following the podcash for quite a long time now and It's been very interesting. Before i discovered this whole american atheism/christianity debate i thought USA was similiar to Finland and rest of the Europe in the matter. I would like to give my perspective and tell a little bit about how religion is shown here.

I was born in a typical finnish family. Both of my parents belong in the protestant state church of Finland and the only times I've been in a chruch with my family have been the my confirmation ceremony (before you think i was a christian believer read on), funerals of my grandmothers and a visit at an orthtodox church in Helsinki. The only time religion was "discussed" in my home was once when i asked my mother does she believe in God. She dodged the question and I didn't get a strait answer. The confirmation ceremony is something almost every kid goes to here. It is preceded usually by a week-long camp where they teach you about christianity and the bible. The camp is very mild compared to what I've heard american kids goe through. At the age of 18 I resigned from the state church online.

Religion and the God is present in many state events. As the cristmas is approaching the annual presidents declaration of cristmas peace speech is an excelent example. It begins "Tomorrow, If God is willing, is our Lord's and our Saviors gracious brithday and thus is declared general peace of christmas..." and so on. Church ceremonies are shown in the national TV channel, there is a church tax for all bussinesses and individuals who belong in the church, during the military service if you belong in the chruch you have to take part in church ceremonies (I didn't belong in the church and nobody didn't seem to care) and take an oath in the name of God and the state, christianity is taught I think in too much detail in the elementary school (they teach all about what Jesus supposedly did and the line between reality and fiction fades away sometimes but they teach also about other religions), the schools holiday celebrations have religios nuances, when i was in high school there was once a week a mornings opening speech held by somebody from the church.

Even with all this promotion of religion done by the goverment I've met only TWO people in my life who have openly declared to believe in God and the other one wasn't even born in Finland. Religion is not discussed in public and there is no debate between differend christian believes and atheist. In fact in my day to day life I don't see religion anywhere. You might ask how on earth this is possible. I think because the church's only income is the church tax, which really is not that big, the church doesn't have recources to reach to people, there are no megachurches in Finland. Parents don't take their kids to church so religion slowly fades away after the teenage years. Most people are "habit" christians, they don't really believe but they are in the church. Strong religious belief is looked down on, there have even been cases when strong belief have cause one trouble in work place, but mostly here is an attitute "my believes are my bussness". Because we have one and only state church all the other "non-official" christian believes are seen as crazy.

Hopefully you found this interesting. Rolleyes

Yo, European Atheist.

Welcome to the boards.

I would not call this a European perspective par se, since there seems to be a gap between Northern/Western Europe and Southern/Eastern Europe in terms of religion and its presence in public and mentality - that´s my impression anyway.
Calling it a Northern European perspective might be more accurate. What you describe above can with a few modifications fit Denmark perfectly. Prayer in school is pretty controversial though and in decline.

In Denmark Christianity is also taught in great detail and with Jesus as a historic figure. However, it is taught in religion classes, not science, and there is not any attitude in science class or religion class that religion (or its retarded offspring Creationism) is a serious "competing theory" - and if Creationism is taught it is taught in religion class. Real scientific theories (like evolution) is actually taught as the main theories of our origin, the creation of the universe and so on. That´s also why Scandinavian countries scores so high in evolution surveys - even though several states, like Denmark, are not fully secular and 65-85 % are members of state churches or former state churches.
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07-12-2012, 04:14 AM
RE: An European perspective
(07-12-2012 04:07 AM)Gaest Wrote:  
(06-12-2012 08:25 PM)European Atheist Wrote:  First i would like to introduce myself since I'm a new user on these forums. I'm 20 years old man and i live in Finland. I've been following the podcash for quite a long time now and It's been very interesting. Before i discovered this whole american atheism/christianity debate i thought USA was similiar to Finland and rest of the Europe in the matter. I would like to give my perspective and tell a little bit about how religion is shown here.

I was born in a typical finnish family. Both of my parents belong in the protestant state church of Finland and the only times I've been in a chruch with my family have been the my confirmation ceremony (before you think i was a christian believer read on), funerals of my grandmothers and a visit at an orthtodox church in Helsinki. The only time religion was "discussed" in my home was once when i asked my mother does she believe in God. She dodged the question and I didn't get a strait answer. The confirmation ceremony is something almost every kid goes to here. It is preceded usually by a week-long camp where they teach you about christianity and the bible. The camp is very mild compared to what I've heard american kids goe through. At the age of 18 I resigned from the state church online.

Religion and the God is present in many state events. As the cristmas is approaching the annual presidents declaration of cristmas peace speech is an excelent example. It begins "Tomorrow, If God is willing, is our Lord's and our Saviors gracious brithday and thus is declared general peace of christmas..." and so on. Church ceremonies are shown in the national TV channel, there is a church tax for all bussinesses and individuals who belong in the church, during the military service if you belong in the chruch you have to take part in church ceremonies (I didn't belong in the church and nobody didn't seem to care) and take an oath in the name of God and the state, christianity is taught I think in too much detail in the elementary school (they teach all about what Jesus supposedly did and the line between reality and fiction fades away sometimes but they teach also about other religions), the schools holiday celebrations have religios nuances, when i was in high school there was once a week a mornings opening speech held by somebody from the church.

Even with all this promotion of religion done by the goverment I've met only TWO people in my life who have openly declared to believe in God and the other one wasn't even born in Finland. Religion is not discussed in public and there is no debate between differend christian believes and atheist. In fact in my day to day life I don't see religion anywhere. You might ask how on earth this is possible. I think because the church's only income is the church tax, which really is not that big, the church doesn't have recources to reach to people, there are no megachurches in Finland. Parents don't take their kids to church so religion slowly fades away after the teenage years. Most people are "habit" christians, they don't really believe but they are in the church. Strong religious belief is looked down on, there have even been cases when strong belief have cause one trouble in work place, but mostly here is an attitute "my believes are my bussness". Because we have one and only state church all the other "non-official" christian believes are seen as crazy.

Hopefully you found this interesting. Rolleyes

Yo, European Atheist.

Welcome to the boards.

I would not call this a European perspective par se, since there seems to be a gap between Northern/Western Europe and Southern/Eastern Europe in terms of religion and its presence in public and mentality - that´s my impression anyway.
Calling it a Northern European perspective might be more accurate. What you describe above can with a few modifications fit Denmark perfectly. Prayer in school is pretty controversial though and in decline.

In Denmark Christianity is also taught in great detail and with Jesus as a historic figure. However, it is taught in religion classes, not science, and there is not any attitude in science class or religion class that religion (or its retarded offspring Creationism) is a serious "competing theory" - and if Creationism is taught it is taught in religion class. Real scientific theories (like evolution) is actually taught as the main theories of our origin, the creation of the universe and so on. That´s also why Scandinavian countries scores so high in evolution surveys - even though several states, like Denmark, are not fully secular and 65-85 % are members of state churches or former state churches.
Pretty much the same here (Southern and Eastern Europe). I only recently discovered there even was such a thing as Cretinism, oops, 'scuse me, Creationism.

Also, religion is not taught in schools and there never was such a ridiculous thing as prayer in school.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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07-12-2012, 04:27 AM
RE: An European perspective
(07-12-2012 02:20 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 02:11 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  I had to Google that and:

The fuck does a javelin thrower have to do with anything?
He has to do with everything, silly, when he looks like this Drinking Beverage

[Image: 292210053.jpg]
I'm very dissappointed in you Vera, he's not that good looking No

[Image: sigvacachica.png]
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07-12-2012, 04:32 AM
RE: An European perspective
(07-12-2012 04:27 AM)nach_in Wrote:  I'm very dissappointed in you Vera, he's not that good looking No
Shut your face, blasphemer! [Image: Smiley_Shake_Fist_by_Mirz123.gif]

And here I was, actually going to rep you!

You're dead to me, do you hear me, DEAD!

[Image: Tero+Pitkamaki+20th+European+Athletics+C...dYN5Jl.jpg]

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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07-12-2012, 04:38 AM
RE: An European perspective
(07-12-2012 04:32 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 04:27 AM)nach_in Wrote:  I'm very dissappointed in you Vera, he's not that good looking No
Shut your face, blasphemer! [Image: Smiley_Shake_Fist_by_Mirz123.gif]

And here I was, actually going to rep you!

You're dead to me, do you hear me, DEAD!

[Image: Tero+Pitkamaki+20th+European+Athletics+C...dYN5Jl.jpg]
well, now we're talking... nice legs. The face is not my cup of tea though, too tanned Sad

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07-12-2012, 04:38 AM (This post was last modified: 07-12-2012 04:57 AM by European Atheist.)
RE: An European perspective
Quote: I would not call this a European perspective par se, since there seems to be a gap between Northern/Western Europe and Southern/Eastern Europe in terms of religion... - ...Calling it a Northern European perspective might be more accurate...

You may be right there.


Quote: In Denmark Christianity is also taught in great detail and with Jesus as a historic figure. However, it is taught in religion classes, not science, and there is not any attitude in science class or religion class that religion (or its retarded offspring Creationism) is a serious "competing theory" - and if Creationism is taught it is taught in religion class. Real scientific theories (like evolution) is actually taught as the main theories of our origin, the creation of the universe and so on. That´s also why Scandinavian countries scores so high in evolution surveys - even though several states, like Denmark, are not fully secular and 65-85 % are members of state churches or former state churches.

It is also the case here that religion is taught in seperate class from sience. Siences are divided into geography, chemistry, physics and biology. Evolution is integrated in the biology class as a thing that goes along it all the time. Details and working mechanisms of evolution are added over the years.

edit. Meaning there are no "evolution days" that parents could decide not to send their children to as I've heard happens in the USA.

edit2. I didn't know what creationism was until high school when it was taught as a term along the history of christianity. Creationism or the bible story of our origins is never taught as equal to evolution. In high school religion classes are more about the facts, history and the effects on society.

Also religion have no say in the contents of sience classes. They are kept strictly separated.
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07-12-2012, 04:44 AM
RE: An European perspective
(07-12-2012 04:38 AM)nach_in Wrote:  well, now we're talking... nice legs. The face is not my cup of tea though, too tanned Sad
Not tanned, he's just a darker-skinned man, you racist! Censored

And that was a low blow, Cow King, while I'm still trying to recover from him not winning a medal at the Olympics Weeping

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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07-12-2012, 05:36 AM
RE: An European perspective
Ah, Scandinavia, was and always will be a perfect place to live... If only you could loose all that snow and cold.

Welcome to the forum EA, your (in)experience with religion in your country is simply beautiful, if the rest of us had that kind of luck, this forum would not exist and no debates would ever be necessary, when it comes to religion.

I would probably still be a "habit" Christian...

P.S.
Vera, I am also a dark-skinned man...

Big Grin

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07-12-2012, 05:44 AM
RE: An European perspective
How right you are, Filox! I love the Scandinavian countries (and Finland). (Actually, started losing my religion while I was living in Sweden, but that was just by chance.)
(I also love snow, but the long winter nights were a bit too much for me).

PS. Colour alone dun' mean a thing, major Drinking Beverage

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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