An Odd Thought on the American Military
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10-07-2013, 07:57 AM
RE: An Odd Thought on the American Military
(10-07-2013 07:44 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(10-07-2013 07:37 AM)Julius Wrote:  Yes, the US pulled out because the war was unjust, but the US was also losing the War. After the 1968 Tet Offensive, General Westmoreland said the US was victorius because:

1. The US had Driven the Viet Cong out of the cities
2. The US had killed a lot of Viet Cong

But...what did General Westmoreland NOT say? Well he forgot to add the following:

1. The Viet Cong had retaken the countryside and it's villages - their traditional stronghold
2. Viet Cong losses were almost instantly replaced with North Vietnamese Regulars.

As a result, the Viet Cong were stronger than ever and continued gaining strength throughout the war.

The Lesson: Body Counts do not always equal Victory and the ultimate proof is that the US no longer has any political or military clout in Vietnam. North Vietnam won.

In 1970, China also tried to impose it's will on Vietnam. The Chinese Army invaded Vietnam in an effort to convince the Vietnamese Government to suspend operations in Cambodia. Less than a month later, the Chinese Army declared Victory and left Vietnam. Meanwhile, Vietnam continued their operations in Cambodia and founded a new Cambodian government (a government without the madman Pol Pot).

So...here we have two superpowers claiming military victory over Vietnam, yet Vietnam continues to do what it damn-well pleases. It's kind of funny, isn't it?

You are incorrect. The war was a clear, undisputed military victory. We lost in maintaining strong political justification for the war.

Britain, France, Japan, China, United States: All of them have claimed victory over Vietnam since World War 2. All of them left Vietnam without achieving a thing. Now...if that is "Victory", then I say, "Who the hell wants Victory"!
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10-07-2013, 08:33 AM
RE: An Odd Thought on the American Military
(10-07-2013 07:48 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The lowest estimate puts the figures at 950,000 North Vietnamese casualties. The Vietnamese government places it at 1.1 million casualties. The highest estimate is approximately 1.5 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War...ary_deaths

Okay - it's the higher end of the estimates, then.

I'd take the Vietnamese figures with a bit of salt; it's clearly to their advantage to claim higher numbers. Note, too, that the Vietnamese government does not give figures for South Vietnamese deaths (which is also in the hundreds of thousands by any estimate, for civilians and military personnel alike). And notwithstanding the hundreds of thousands of their own people that the North Vietnamese killed.

That's not to claim it wasn't a shitty blood-soaked hellhole for twenty years running.

The United States (and allies) were militarily successful in Vietnam in the plainest sense, that I agree with. They were trying to stop the North from taking over; they did that as long as they were there. They failed insofar as creating conditions that would allow that to last after the pullout is concerned...

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10-07-2013, 09:28 AM
RE: An Odd Thought on the American Military
(10-07-2013 07:57 AM)Julius Wrote:  Britain, France, Japan, China, United States: All of them have claimed victory over Vietnam since World War 2. All of them left Vietnam without achieving a thing. Now...if that is "Victory", then I say, "Who the hell wants Victory"!

The United States inflicted more North Vietnamese losses than the U.S military has lost since its conception. That is all we need to know concerning U.S military prowess. It was a political defeat, but an overwhelming military victory. You are wrong.

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