An Official TTA Census?
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29-08-2013, 05:48 AM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 05:29 AM)morondog Wrote:  I find these odd. How the hell will you enforce ownership laws without a state ?

Presumably with an iron bar that you'd fashioned into a club?

I would assume that if you wanted to live in an anarcho-communist dystopia you'd probably wield a club and have hairy forearms. Probably an intimidating beard and poor dental hygene too. Razor manufacturers and Dentists being the first to go the work camps as we purge the bourgeios ruling class from our streets.

As I type I realise that I'm not qualified to answer this...

There's a chap called Truly X who knows stuff and came up with the scale here. He might be the person to ask...

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29-08-2013, 07:40 AM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 05:23 AM)Shannow Wrote:  
(28-08-2013 04:46 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  Just give me the proposed changes for the political section also.

We have a new political scale (Kudos to TrulyX for knowing lots)


Anarcho-Communist - no state, no private ownership
Anarcho-Capitalist- no state, private ownership

Libertarian State Socialist- state power limited, social ownership
Libertarian State Capitalist- state power limited, private ownership

Social-Welfare State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership, welfare system

State Socialist- state, social/state ownership
State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership

Authoritarian State Socialist- extensive state power, social/state ownership
Authoritarian State Capitalist- extensive state power, private/state ownership

I think that covers it Smile

No, it doesn't.

Centrist/Rationalist - continuous debate and change on the balance of personal freedom and social responsibility, balancing state/social control against personal freedom and responsibility.

The rest are ideologies.

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29-08-2013, 07:42 AM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 05:29 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-08-2013 05:23 AM)Shannow Wrote:  Anarcho-Communist - no state, no private ownership
Anarcho-Capitalist- no state, private ownership

I find these odd. How the hell will you enforce ownership laws without a state ?

You'd have to ask one of our resident anarchists - they haven't yet supplied any rational answer to that question.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-08-2013, 08:00 AM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 07:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, it doesn't.

Centrist/Rationalist [SNIP] The rest are ideologies.

Err right....how about:

Anarcho-Communist - no state, no private ownership
Anarcho-Capitalist- no state, private ownership

Libertarian State Socialist- state power limited, social ownership
Libertarian State Capitalist- state power limited, private ownership

Social-Welfare State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership, welfare system

Centrist/Rationalist - balancing state/social control against personal freedom and responsibility.

State Socialist- state, social/state ownership
State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership

Authoritarian State Socialist- extensive state power, social/state ownership
Authoritarian State Capitalist- extensive state power, private/state ownership

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29-08-2013, 09:59 AM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 07:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, it doesn't.

Centrist/Rationalist - continuous debate and change on the balance of personal freedom and social responsibility, balancing state/social control against personal freedom and responsibility.

The rest are ideologies.

I was thinking that social-welfare state capitalist had centrists covered. It accepts that there should be a state, but obviously not an authoritarian or libertarian state, i.e. center. Then it accepts elements of the left in a social welfare system, where members of those societies have access to certain resources, usually education, housing, health, food, etc., while maintaining a capitalist structure that allows for money, profits and private ownership of certain resources, which usually involves private-public cooperation, etc., as opposed to the complete (or close to complete) elimination of private ownership in an authoritarian socialist state or communist society, and the acceptance for the complete reliance on capitalism with no intervention (to little) in an anarchist/libertarian capitalist society, i.e. center again.

The debate of balance of personal freedom, responsibility, etc., is had across the board and is the reason for ideologies. Certain people reach different conclusions about what is acceptable and justified violations of liberty, control over resourced and the assuming of authoritative positions.

So, what is a centrist to you? And why is it a rational position? It is obviously an ideology, since the rejection of ideologies would either make you radical or completely off of the spectrum, not accepting the center between the left-right of certain aspects.

You obviously can't assume being rational, prior to providing your views and a rational justification for those views.

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29-08-2013, 10:05 AM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 08:00 AM)Shannow Wrote:  
(29-08-2013 07:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, it doesn't.

Centrist/Rationalist [SNIP] The rest are ideologies.

Err right....how about:

Anarcho-Communist - no state, no private ownership
Anarcho-Capitalist- no state, private ownership

Libertarian State Socialist- state power limited, social ownership
Libertarian State Capitalist- state power limited, private ownership

Social-Welfare State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership, welfare system

Centrist/Rationalist - balancing state/social control against personal freedom and responsibility.

State Socialist- state, social/state ownership
State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership

Authoritarian State Socialist- extensive state power, social/state ownership
Authoritarian State Capitalist- extensive state power, private/state ownership

OKThumbsup

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29-08-2013, 10:31 AM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 07:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-08-2013 05:29 AM)morondog Wrote:  I find these odd. How the hell will you enforce ownership laws without a state ?

You'd have to ask one of our resident anarchists - they haven't yet supplied any rational answer to that question.

Well, for capitalism, if you didn't have what some would consider "a monopoly on force", I'd assume you would handle that in the same way as any other service without a monopoly.

And if there wasn't private and protected ownership, especially with the opposite of accepted common ownership (or just not ownership at all), there just wouldn't be any ownership to enforce.

Should this include barbarism? Or substitute barbarism in for anarchism?

You don't have to consider these things working realistically, that is why they are ideological. I guess that would be the same as not expecting a vast majority of people to reject religion.

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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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29-08-2013, 04:23 PM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 09:59 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(29-08-2013 07:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, it doesn't.

Centrist/Rationalist - continuous debate and change on the balance of personal freedom and social responsibility, balancing state/social control against personal freedom and responsibility.

The rest are ideologies.

I was thinking that social-welfare state capitalist had centrists covered. It accepts that there should be a state, but obviously not an authoritarian or libertarian state, i.e. center. Then it accepts elements of the left in a social welfare system, where members of those societies have access to certain resources, usually education, housing, health, food, etc., while maintaining a capitalist structure that allows for money, profits and private ownership of certain resources, which usually involves private-public cooperation, etc., as opposed to the complete (or close to complete) elimination of private ownership in an authoritarian socialist state or communist society, and the acceptance for the complete reliance on capitalism with no intervention (to little) in an anarchist/libertarian capitalist society, i.e. center again.

The debate of balance of personal freedom, responsibility, etc., is had across the board and is the reason for ideologies. Certain people reach different conclusions about what is acceptable and justified violations of liberty, control over resourced and the assuming of authoritative positions.

So, what is a centrist to you? And why is it a rational position? It is obviously an ideology, since the rejection of ideologies would either make you radical or completely off of the spectrum, not accepting the center between the left-right of certain aspects.

You obviously can't assume being rational, prior to providing your views and a rational justification for those views.

No, it is not an ideology because, unlike the others, it assumes no outcome, no preferred balance, no position on the 'spectrum'.

It is political science. It is unbiased.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-08-2013, 04:26 PM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 10:31 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(29-08-2013 07:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  You'd have to ask one of our resident anarchists - they haven't yet supplied any rational answer to that question.

Well, for capitalism, if you didn't have what some would consider "a monopoly on force", I'd assume you would handle that in the same way as any other service without a monopoly.

And if there wasn't private and protected ownership, especially with the opposite of accepted common ownership (or just not ownership at all), there just wouldn't be any ownership to enforce.

Should this include barbarism? Or substitute barbarism in for anarchism?

You don't have to consider these things working realistically, that is why they are ideological. I guess that would be the same as not expecting a vast majority of people to reject religion.

It seems to me that anything in an ideology should be realistically expected to work as per their intent...

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29-08-2013, 06:02 PM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 04:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it is not an ideology because, unlike the others, it assumes no outcome, no preferred balance, no position on the 'spectrum'.

It is political science. It is unbiased.

Centrist is an ideology.

Assuming an outcome is irrelevant to ideology, and that would be without even addressing whether other positions assume outcomes. You could have an ideology of not assuming an outcome.

There is a preferred balance. Being centrist, you would accept a balance between left and right, which is what would put you in the center. If you didn't know, you would have to respond that you didn't know, and hopefully apply some reasoning to the circumstances, not that you are in the center.

That leads to the last part-- the center is obviously on the spectrum. Playing darts, I would have to assume someone would get pissed, if they got a bull's eye and I told them they missed the board.

....................................

For that poll, you might as well take out the social welfare state, that I had in the middle.

Just add, in the middle, moderate left-leaning, centrist, moderate right-leaning.

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“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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