An Official TTA Census?
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29-08-2013, 06:04 PM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 04:26 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  It seems to me that anything in an ideology should be realistically expected to work as per their intent...

I guess my point was that what one person might view as perfectly realistic, another might see as being absolute absurdity.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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29-08-2013, 06:18 PM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 06:02 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(29-08-2013 04:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it is not an ideology because, unlike the others, it assumes no outcome, no preferred balance, no position on the 'spectrum'.

It is political science. It is unbiased.

Centrist is an ideology.

Assuming an outcome is irrelevant to ideology, and that would be without even addressing whether other positions assume outcomes. You could have an ideology of not assuming an outcome.

There is a preferred balance. Being centrist, you would accept a balance between left and right, which is what would put you in the center. If you didn't know, you would have to respond that you didn't know, and hopefully apply some reasoning to the circumstances, not that you are in the center.

That leads to the last part-- the center is obviously on the spectrum. Playing darts, I would have to assume someone would get pissed, if they got a bull's eye and I told them they missed the board.

....................................

For that poll, you might as well take out the social welfare state, that I had in the middle.

Just add, in the middle, moderate left-leaning, centrist, moderate right-leaning.

Don't get hung up on the word 'centrist'.

I am talking about a pragmatic approach, a scientific approach. It is not pre-supposing a position on any left/right, liberal/conservative spectrum; it might even deny the reality, or at least utility, of such a spectrum.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-08-2013, 06:27 PM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 08:00 AM)Shannow Wrote:  
(29-08-2013 07:40 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, it doesn't.

Centrist/Rationalist [SNIP] The rest are ideologies.

Err right....how about:

Anarcho-Communist - no state, no private ownership
Anarcho-Capitalist- no state, private ownership

Libertarian State Socialist- state power limited, social ownership
Libertarian State Capitalist- state power limited, private ownership

Social-Welfare State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership, welfare system

Centrist/Rationalist - balancing state/social control against personal freedom and responsibility.

State Socialist- state, social/state ownership
State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership

Authoritarian State Socialist- extensive state power, social/state ownership
Authoritarian State Capitalist- extensive state power, private/state ownership

I think it's simpler to treat political and economic positions as orthogonal and treat them as separate dimensions instead of trying to enumerate all possible combinations. I consider myself as a free market capitalistic socialist and I see no inconsistency in that position. Hell, that pretty much describes China's current state.

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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29-08-2013, 06:29 PM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 06:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-08-2013 08:00 AM)Shannow Wrote:  Err right....how about:

Anarcho-Communist - no state, no private ownership
Anarcho-Capitalist- no state, private ownership

Libertarian State Socialist- state power limited, social ownership
Libertarian State Capitalist- state power limited, private ownership

Social-Welfare State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership, welfare system

Centrist/Rationalist - balancing state/social control against personal freedom and responsibility.

State Socialist- state, social/state ownership
State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership

Authoritarian State Socialist- extensive state power, social/state ownership
Authoritarian State Capitalist- extensive state power, private/state ownership

I think it's simpler to treat political and economic positions as orthogonal and treat them as separate dimensions instead of trying to enumerate all possible combinations. I consider myself as a free market capitalistic socialist and I see no inconsistency in that position. Hell, that pretty much describes China's current state.

You're some kinda Chi-Com mole?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-08-2013, 06:46 PM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 06:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-08-2013 06:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I think it's simpler to treat political and economic positions as orthogonal and treat them as separate dimensions instead of trying to enumerate all possible combinations. I consider myself as a free market capitalistic socialist and I see no inconsistency in that position. Hell, that pretty much describes China's current state.

You're some kinda Chi-Com mole?

Fuck. Now at my next security clearance review I'm gonna have to explain that "No, this is not the Manchurian Programmer you are looking for." ... Fuckin' Chas. ... I'm just waiting for his cats to eat him. Big Grin

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30-08-2013, 07:01 AM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(29-08-2013 06:18 PM)Chas Wrote:  Don't get hung up on the word 'centrist'.

I am talking about a pragmatic approach, a scientific approach. It is not pre-supposing a position on any left/right, liberal/conservative spectrum; it might even deny the reality, or at least utility, of such a spectrum.

Well, science and pragmatism are separate from a political spectrum.

I would just think, that if you were to reject the spectrum, you wouldn't see yourself as, at all, being on it, which would include being in the center of it.

If a person was just denying the spectrum, I would say that they were apolitical, not centrist.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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02-09-2013, 10:42 AM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
@Deep - looks like sum total of the debate is to go with the list below.

Any joy with the analytics stuff?

Let me know if I can help at all. I've got free time on Thurs/Fri this week if you want me to work on anything. Then I'm off on holiday for a week so internet access will be limited.

Political 'scale' :

Anarcho-Communist - no state, no private ownership
Anarcho-Capitalist- no state, private ownership

Libertarian State Socialist- state power limited, social ownership
Libertarian State Capitalist- state power limited, private ownership

Social-Welfare State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership, welfare system

Centrist/Rationalist - balancing state/social control against personal freedom and responsibility.

State Socialist- state, social/state ownership
State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership

Authoritarian State Socialist- extensive state power, social/state ownership
Authoritarian State Capitalist- extensive state power, private/state ownership

Cheers

S

"Christianity is like a diet where you eat lots of chocolate cake all week, and then on Sunday you mentally scold yourself and "try again" only to repeat the cycle." - Buddy Christ
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04-09-2013, 04:51 AM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
(02-09-2013 10:42 AM)Shannow Wrote:  @Deep - looks like sum total of the debate is to go with the list below.

Any joy with the analytics stuff?

Let me know if I can help at all. I've got free time on Thurs/Fri this week if you want me to work on anything. Then I'm off on holiday for a week so internet access will be limited.

Political 'scale' :

Anarcho-Communist - no state, no private ownership
Anarcho-Capitalist- no state, private ownership

Libertarian State Socialist- state power limited, social ownership
Libertarian State Capitalist- state power limited, private ownership

Social-Welfare State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership, welfare system

Centrist/Rationalist - balancing state/social control against personal freedom and responsibility.

State Socialist- state, social/state ownership
State Capitalist- state, private/state ownership

Authoritarian State Socialist- extensive state power, social/state ownership
Authoritarian State Capitalist- extensive state power, private/state ownership

Cheers

S

Yeah, I got about 1/4 throuh last weekend. Don't know how I was so startlingly unproductive. I'll get back into it tomorrow after work.

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05-09-2013, 04:15 AM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
Just had dinner and it's too late to start. I'd rather have a good nights sleep. I hope I get it done this weekend. Sorry.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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10-09-2013, 02:27 AM
RE: An Official TTA Census?
Im roughly 2/3rds through now. I updated the political bit which can now be veiwed at the link used earlier.

Next weekend I should have the census storing form data.


Adding processing for the submitted data and presenting anonymous averages may take a little longer.

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