An argument for Jesus
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08-05-2012, 10:16 PM
RE: An argument for Jesus
David Copperfield is Jesus

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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08-05-2012, 10:39 PM
RE: An argument for Jesus
(08-05-2012 10:16 PM)Thomas Wrote:  David Copperfield is Jesus
Nah, he,s a Dickens character; Scrooge was a mean dude though Sadcryface2 !
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09-05-2012, 07:30 AM
RE: An argument for Jesus
(08-05-2012 08:21 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(08-05-2012 04:08 PM)Magoo Wrote:  Ok so my Christian friend presented me with the following argument for the proof that Jesus performed miracles and is the son of god and what not.

1. The historian Josephus was a non-Chrisitan, lived during the time of Jesus and wrote about jesus's miracles. Therefore it is a reliable source that Jesus is who he says he is.

2. People didn't go around telling everyone about the story's of Jesus because they were afraid of kings and people high in society punishing then for being heretics or whatever else. Therefore, Jesus did perform miracles.

Now, I'm actually getting worried here because I find myself actually admitting he is right in a way. Maybe it's just my indoctrination. I just really need an opinion from you guys. Would appreciate it.

Hi Magoo, your friend obviously knows next to nothing of history, and is not thinking clearly, as very well pointed out by Chas, Bucky and earmuffs.



When discussing Jeebus' miracles, you could also point out the following:

Was Jesus a Miracle Worker?
Cults that had existed for hundreds or thousands of years before Jesus all had miracle working prodigies. Isis, an Ancient Egyptian goddess, healed the sick. Poseidon, the god of the sea in Greek mythology, walked on water, as did Horus, an ancient Egyptian deity. Dionysus, the Greek god of the grape harvest, turned water into wine. Aesclepius, the Greek god of medicine and healing, raised the dead, as did Apollonius, a Greek philosopher who also cast out demons. Buddha fed five hundred men with one loaf of bread, cured lepers, and helped the blind to see. Jesus’ miracles were all rather “old hat” by the time the Gospel authors wrote about them.

It could be argued it was just coincidence Jesus shared these miracles with others, or that he mimicked them to raise his own status. Both are weak arguments. The average person would have been unaware of most of these legends, so the authors thought they had free rein to borrow attractive stories from other cults. They were not writing for informed modern readers.

The Old Testament also contained hundreds of miracles. Jesus, the next great prophet of Israel, was cast in a role similar to the
miracle working Moses and Elijah of the Old Testament.


If Jesus was really God, he should have pulled off some original tricks. If he had conducted a concerto, turned on a television with a remote control, or water-skied on the Sea of Galilee, everyone would be seriously impressed. If he had cured the world of smallpox,
leprosy, or cancer, he would have made a serious case for his divinity. As it was, the miracles were nothing out of the ordinary.


There were cures, exorcisms, and risings from the dead. Those with paraplegia, cerebral palsy, leprosy, blindness, and insanity were healed on the spot. People must have been mightily impressed. The social security system would have saved a lot of money. If all this were true news of Jesus would have spread like wildfire. Consider how faith healers can attract crowds of thousands today with only the promise of miracles. There would have been no doubt he was divine, someone truly special, much more than a “dime a dozen” rabbi pushing worn out ideas. Such a man would be exalted above sectarian squabbles with Romans, Sadducees, and Pharisees, not someone who was plotted against, rejected, mocked by crowds, tortured, and crucified. He was obviously no superstar in his own time, so he didn’t perform miracles.

What about evidence for miracles from sources other than the gospels? Paul, who knew his original disciples, and wrote at least six genuine letters in the bible, didn’t mention a single miracle. The reason is obvious. Paul’s writings predated the gospels, so he didn’t know his Christ was going to become a miracle worker via the pen of imaginative Gospel authors. Nor does a scrutiny of all the first-century Epistles in the Bible—James, Jude, 1 and 2 Peter, and 1, 2, and 3 John—reveal a record of any miracles. They too were written before or without knowledge of the Gospels. The only place in the Bible the miracles were documented was in the Gospels themselves, and they copied similar fables from other cults and then copied each other.

Evangelical Gospel writers invented Jesus’ miracle stories, a fact easily deduced from an objective examination of the Bible!


Thats a great arguement, and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for your input. I think my friend is just trying to convince himself that Jesus is the son of god. He finds the smallest but of evidence and focuses on it, and he makes excuses for everything as well.
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09-05-2012, 09:24 AM
RE: An argument for Jesus
(08-05-2012 09:36 PM)Thomas Wrote:  I am open to the fact that I could be wrong pending additional evidence.

Additional evidence:

Jesus Never Existed

Very in-depth. See ya in a few weeks! Big Grin

[Image: 0832984001338019225.gif]
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09-05-2012, 09:59 AM
RE: An argument for Jesus
(08-05-2012 10:02 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  This has been covered historically by others; even if a man with supernatural powers was performing
'miracles'..........so what? The Good Book tells us that even the demons can perform them!




Yup, none of those miracles convinced the people…. even his own disciples.

What is remarkable is how these few ordinary people, afraid of the powers that be at that time…suddenly preached in the open, and started one of the major religions in the world.
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09-05-2012, 10:22 AM
RE: An argument for Jesus
(09-05-2012 09:24 AM)Quidsane Wrote:  
(08-05-2012 09:36 PM)Thomas Wrote:  I am open to the fact that I could be wrong pending additional evidence.

Additional evidence:

Jesus Never Existed

Very in-depth. See ya in a few weeks! Big Grin
I'm under the impression there could have been a fairly well known preacher of the times who could have been the son of a carpenter, Sort of a Peter Popoff of his day. The biblical jesus? Nope
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