An atheist Prayer
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29-12-2013, 02:10 AM
An atheist Prayer
An Atheist prayer

Dear God Please answer my questions and I promise you I’ll start believing:

(*) Assuming good and bad are inarguable concepts.
(*) God inarguable traits: All good, Loving, Perfect, Omniscient, Ubiquitous, the supreme creator


God represents all what’s good in this world. God also loves all his creatures.
In this case where does evil stem from?
a. Satan Exists: Satan is the source of all Evil. Satan a fallen angel created by God tries constantly to Hijack God’s good will. Hence he tries luring people to bad schemes. So some people who are originally good are tempted against their own nature which is of course being good to do evil acts.

The first question that pops into my head:
Why Satan became corrupted considering that everything God creates is pure good?
I- God isn’t all that good after all.
II- God didn’t create Satan so who did?!!! Isn’t he the supreme creator?!! Shocking is there another higher level God who is neither good nor evil messing up with all of us?!!!

The second question that pops into my head:
Why doesn’t God simply relieve us from Satan?
I- He can’t. This fact makes you question if God really created the whole world. Can’t the creator who knows everything simply kill one of its creations?
If he can’t then:
- He didn’t create Satan so who did??? Same question as above.
II- He doesn’t want to. God is all good. He doesn’t kill. Killing is evil. But is killing Evil can be considered Evil? Isn’t he after all fighting Evil? If he isn’t fighting Evil then are people fighting Evil alone? So God isn’t all that good after all.
III- He made a deal with Satan.
a. He just wants to recognize who has a strong will and who hasn’t among people so he lets them fight alone a way more powerful being he created while giving them guidance and signs from time to time. This fact makes you question if God is really that good after all.
b. He wants to keep the business running. God loves to be loved and idolized all the times. So what’s better than creating an Evil nemesis like Satan?

b. Satan does not exist:
I- So are you saying that people “God’s creations” are the source of Evil? How can a perfect creator make such imperfections?
a. He did it on purpose. Why God why?? No matter what intention he has, God isn’t all that good after all. He created the source of Evil through people. I guess he was a bit bored with all good stuff around him
b. It was a mistake. Give me another chance please!!! But… but you’re perfect!!
II- Evil is the lack of good. Ummm… Interesting concept. Considering that God represents all what’s good then Evil is the lack of God’s presence in our lives my friends.
But isn’t God ubiquitous? Why does he choose not to show up then?
- He doesn’t want to. Why? You’d better deal with your own junk son. So I can recognize who’s good and who’s evil. Contradictory statement: isn’t your lack of presence the source of Evil? No matter what reason, God isn’t that good after all.
- He’s not ubiquitous. But… but he’s God!!
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30-12-2013, 11:03 AM
RE: An atheist Prayer
A bit wordy.
Try this;
Dear lord, protect me from your followers.

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
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30-12-2013, 11:30 AM
RE: An atheist Prayer
(29-12-2013 02:10 AM)Atheist789 Wrote:  The first question that pops into my head:
Why Satan became corrupted considering that everything God creates is pure good?
I- God isn’t all that good after all.
II- God didn’t create Satan so who did?!!! Isn’t he the supreme creator?!! Shocking is there another higher level God who is neither good nor evil messing up with all of us?!!!

I know how a Christian thinks...
They could easily say "Good created everything good. Free will is GOOD. Satan used his freewill, and God decided not to destroy satan afterwards, but rather let the pieces fall as they may.."

Anyone have a good rebuttal for that?
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30-12-2013, 11:48 AM
RE: An atheist Prayer
(30-12-2013 11:30 AM)crazylikeyou Wrote:  I know how a Christian thinks...
They could easily say "Good created everything good. Free will is GOOD. Satan used his freewill, and God decided not to destroy satan afterwards, but rather let the pieces fall as they may.."

Anyone have a good rebuttal for that?

If free will means having the option to become evil by disobeying god then free will in THAT context cannot be good

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor
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30-12-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: An atheist Prayer
(30-12-2013 11:48 AM)djkamilo Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 11:30 AM)crazylikeyou Wrote:  I know how a Christian thinks...
They could easily say "Good created everything good. Free will is GOOD. Satan used his freewill, and God decided not to destroy satan afterwards, but rather let the pieces fall as they may.."

Anyone have a good rebuttal for that?

If free will means having the option to become evil by disobeying god then free will in THAT context cannot be good

Can't articulate it in a better way.
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30-12-2013, 02:17 PM
RE: An atheist Prayer
(30-12-2013 11:30 AM)crazylikeyou Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 02:10 AM)Atheist789 Wrote:  The first question that pops into my head:
Why Satan became corrupted considering that everything God creates is pure good?
I- God isn’t all that good after all.
II- God didn’t create Satan so who did?!!! Isn’t he the supreme creator?!! Shocking is there another higher level God who is neither good nor evil messing up with all of us?!!!

I know how a Christian thinks...
They could easily say "Good created everything good. Free will is GOOD. Satan used his freewill, and God decided not to destroy satan afterwards, but rather let the pieces fall as they may.."

Anyone have a good rebuttal for that?

In addition to what djkamilo said, I wanna add something else too. If God decided not to destroy Satan then he'd rather let Satan destroy the other creatures. Does not that make him partly bad?
We can all agree that Free will means you can choose from a set of options. You're saying that Satan used his Free will. So he picked an option from that Set. That option turned out to be Evil. So Evil was there before Satan. We go back to the main question: where does Evil stem from?
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30-12-2013, 02:26 PM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2013 02:43 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: An atheist Prayer
(30-12-2013 02:17 PM)Atheist789 Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 11:30 AM)crazylikeyou Wrote:  I know how a Christian thinks...
They could easily say "Good created everything good. Free will is GOOD. Satan used his freewill, and God decided not to destroy satan afterwards, but rather let the pieces fall as they may.."

Anyone have a good rebuttal for that?

In addition to what djkamilo said, I wanna add something else too. If God decided not to destroy Satan then he'd rather let Satan destroy the other creatures. Does not that make him partly bad?
We can all agree that Free will means you can choose from a set of options. You're saying that Satan used his Free will. So he picked an option from that Set. That option turned out to be Evil. So Evil was there before Satan. We go back to the main question: where does Evil stem from?

Exactly. It actually goes back further than that. It's the same as Euthypho's Dilemma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma
Whatever you call it, or however you describe it, it presupposes an (unexplained) *structure* (or *set* as you called it) in Reality in which their god MUST (and only partially) participate, by definition. THAT is (cannot be) no *creator* of the same Reality. A deity which is required by definition to participate in order to achieve it's "existence" cannot be the creator of the very Reality in which it must participate, in order to exist.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein (That's a JOKE, ya idiot)
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30-12-2013, 02:50 PM
RE: An atheist Prayer
(30-12-2013 02:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-12-2013 02:17 PM)Atheist789 Wrote:  In addition to what djkamilo said, I wanna add something else too. If God decided not to destroy Satan then he'd rather let Satan destroy the other creatures. Does not that make him partly bad?
We can all agree that Free will means you can choose from a set of options. You're saying that Satan used his Free will. So he picked an option from that Set. That option turned out to be Evil. So Evil was there before Satan. We go back to the main question: where does Evil stem from?

Exactly. It actually goes back further than that. It's the same as Euthypho's Dilemma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma
Whatever you call it, or however you describe it, it presupposes an (unexplained) *structure* (or *set* as you called it) in Reality in which their god MUST (and only partially) participate, by definition. THAT is (cannot be) no *creator* of the same Reality.

A very interesting dilemma. I'll definitely check it deeply. I certainly question if the masses are able to understand such basic argumentation.
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30-12-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: An atheist Prayer
(29-12-2013 02:10 AM)Atheist789 Wrote:  An Atheist prayer

Dear God...

As a person who doesn't believe in any gods, this is where you lost me. I don't see the point in speaking telepathically to imaginary beings. Drinking Beverage

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30-12-2013, 06:55 PM
RE: An atheist Prayer
(30-12-2013 06:52 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 02:10 AM)Atheist789 Wrote:  An Atheist prayer

Dear God...

As a person who doesn't believe in any gods, this is where you lost me. I don't see the point in speaking telepathically to imaginary beings. Drinking Beverage

Should he say, Dear Universe?

“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullshit.” ― Richard Pryor
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