An atheist becomes a believer
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18-03-2017, 04:28 PM
RE: An atheist becomes a believer
(18-03-2017 03:59 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  [Image: reverts2.jpg]
Look carefully at my post. You aren't responding to my actual points.

Which was, in a nutshell, that atheists have a variety of views, and present a variety of responses to life situations.

Your chart isn't about atheists who grew up ignorant of religion, led a charmed life and then find themselves in a tragic situation.

It'a about atheists as a total group.

Most atheists I know were minted as adults. I also know several atheists who were atheists as children and remain atheists through late life. My own wife being one of them.

If you are presenting the chart to imply Christianity is better than atheism merely because it has higher retention rates for childhood adherents, then by that logic, Christians should convert to Hinduism, clearly.
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18-03-2017, 04:57 PM
RE: An atheist becomes a believer
(18-03-2017 12:14 PM)Jokurix Wrote:  Today in a classroom discussion one of my classmates said the following:

"Atheists become believers when they're in moments of distress. For example, an atheist will start questioning if God really exists and even become a believer when he's about to die."

What do you think of this? Tongue

I suppose it's possible, but if I were to go for Pascal's Wager at the very end, I could have done it a long time ago and saved myself the hassle.
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18-03-2017, 05:36 PM
RE: An atheist becomes a believer
(18-03-2017 04:28 PM)mordant Wrote:  If you are presenting the chart to imply Christianity is better than atheism merely because it has higher retention rates for childhood adherents, then by that logic, Christians should convert to Hinduism, clearly.

People believe a lot of things for social reasons. I wonder what those numbers would be in China for instance, or what they would be if Americans stopped being prejudiced against atheists.

Undecided
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18-03-2017, 06:25 PM
RE: An atheist becomes a believer
I don't think it matters. It doesn't prove anything even if it does happen sometimes. I have experienced it the other way when someone has died, either themselves or someone around them has denounced belief, y'know ... 'if there was a God, how could he let this happen?'

One of the consequences of humans having awareness of conscience and free thought is we're fallible.

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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18-03-2017, 07:53 PM
RE: An atheist becomes a believer
(18-03-2017 12:14 PM)Jokurix Wrote:  Today in a classroom discussion one of my classmates said the following:

"Atheists become believers when they're in moments of distress. For example, an atheist will start questioning if God really exists and even become a believer when he's about to die."

What do you think of this? Tongue

Statements like this tell us a lot about the one making them. He or she is telling us what he does in a difficult situation and projecting it onto atheists. How does this person know what atheists do when they're about to die? Maybe he thinks this because he's been taught that when someone is going through a hard time, he's easier to convert. But I'd like to know how this person knows what he claims to know. Is it the same way he knows his god exists? It's easy to imagine what some atheists do when in fox holes or on death's door and given theism's lack of any means to distinguish the real from the imaginary, it's easy to see how they might mistake what they are merely imagining for knowledge. But it's just more faith based, unargued assertions here with no substance.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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18-03-2017, 07:56 PM
RE: An atheist becomes a believer
(18-03-2017 04:28 PM)mordant Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 03:59 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  [Image: reverts2.jpg]
Look carefully at my post. You aren't responding to my actual points.

Which was, in a nutshell, that atheists have a variety of views, and present a variety of responses to life situations.

Your chart isn't about atheists who grew up ignorant of religion, led a charmed life and then find themselves in a tragic situation.

It'a about atheists as a total group.

Most atheists I know were minted as adults. I also know several atheists who were atheists as children and remain atheists through late life. My own wife being one of them.

If you are presenting the chart to imply Christianity is better than atheism merely because it has higher retention rates for childhood adherents, then by that logic, Christians should convert to Hinduism, clearly.

(18-03-2017 04:28 PM)mordant Wrote:  If you are presenting the chart to imply Christianity is better than atheism merely because it has higher retention rates for childhood adherents, then by that logic, Christians should convert to Hinduism, clearly.

Yup. This is what the chart tells me. Fuck Jesus. Hindu gods must be the true gods because of the retention of Hindu belief. I'm goin down tomorrow and becoming a Hindu.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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18-03-2017, 08:37 PM
RE: An atheist becomes a believer
(18-03-2017 12:14 PM)Jokurix Wrote:  Today in a classroom discussion one of my classmates said the following:

"Atheists become believers when they're in moments of distress. For example, an atheist will start questioning if God really exists and even become a believer when he's about to die."

What do you think of this? Tongue

> I have no doubt that this might be true for a very few weak-minded individuals, but when you consider that the vast majority of atheists here have religious backgrounds, I think the point is somewhat moot. It's nothing more than a variation on the nonsensical truism: "There are no atheists in foxholes."
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18-03-2017, 08:44 PM
RE: An atheist becomes a believer



"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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18-03-2017, 08:56 PM
RE: An atheist becomes a believer
(18-03-2017 03:59 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(18-03-2017 03:43 PM)mordant Wrote:  Consider someone who grew up ignorant of religion, who had never even considered belief in any deities, who had led a fairly charmed life and then suddenly runs into some horrific tragedy, and then at this vulnerable moment a kindly believer offers the faux comfort of their faith-based beliefs. I would almost be surprised if such a person did NOT convert, particularly if they are prone to be easily guilted and such.

But that is not a description of most atheists.
[Image: reverts2.jpg]

> Just over eight years ago I was diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer. I had a few stressful periods before I was to undergo a radical prostatectomy. At no time did I pray to God or even THINK of doing so. On the morning of the operation, a nurse asked if I wanted to talk to a priest before entering the Operation Room. Slightly annoyed, I replied, "No!" The day after the operation, a priest entered my room and asked if he could be of any service. I politely asked him to leave. Consider
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18-03-2017, 09:05 PM
RE: An atheist becomes a believer
In September of 2009 I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I didn't pray.

In October of that year I had both breasts removed. I didn't pray.

I was told I had to go through chemo and I had to start ASAP. I got a second opinion. I didn't pray.

In March of 2010 I had reconstruction surgery. I didn't pray.

I spent about three years suffering from issues with healing from the surgeries and nerve damage related to the surgeries. I didn't pray.

Here I am. Cancer free and pretty much side-effect free. You know what would have happened if I would have prayed? The same things in the same order.

In my case I didn't even consider praying.

People can always say what someone else would or wouldn't do when faced with a devastating situation...but it's only speculation.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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